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Yet another "money vs purist" HAMBster discussion.

Discussion in 'HA/GR' started by Old6rodder, Oct 28, 2014.

  1. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,546

    Old6rodder
    Member
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group

    This thread's to re-position (from interposing on another thread) an important aspect of our class.

    Gentlemen,
    Something you may not be considering.
    The money thing is as it will ever be. And we already have, and are living, the answer.

    Our two sub-classes of the HAMBster concept (HA/GR and SDRA) are already building & racing in the two forms that appeal to the two different personalities that like these cars. We already have HA/GR for those of us who want the whole experience of early postwar, back yard built & raced cars, and SDRA & NWVD for those of us who want cars that capture the look of the era but go faster and can be shop built.

    The money "problem" is in truth less a problem than it ever was. We have, and are successfully racing a money version of our cars. And right along side a successful purist version of the same style car. Thanks to our (intentional) effort of a split class we're also the only truly new class of nostalgia drag racing that's making it today. Yeah, we're small potatoes, but why on earth would we want the rest of the world peeing in our sandbox? Let us grow at whatever's the best natural rate for us.

    Together we're bringing back a period of drag racing that was all but lost. Not the "Glory Days" of the late '60s & early '70s that everyone else is enamored of, but the formative years right after the war when our sport was truly born. We neither have, need, nor want to homogenize our two classes into one for any reason what-so-ever (we're not milk). Against many predictions to the contrary, we are growing. Not fast, not steadily, not evenly, but growing. We have the HAMB, a few of it's members, and our passions, alone to thank for this.

    Remember, it's together that we're HAMBster herders.
     
    Maverick Daddy likes this.
  2. Old28
    Joined: Jan 11, 2009
    Posts: 1,390

    Old28
    Member

    Well put Old6 , and we will both keep growing, slow as it may be.;):eek::rolleyes:

    With a little luck and a new hip I hope to get back in the game with our great group of HAMBster's
    next year.:D
     
    Maverick Daddy likes this.
  3. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,376

    bobw
    Member

    Obviously, an HA/GR or SDRA style car is not the cheapest way o go drag racing. It'll cost a little bit more to use the required powerplant(s), buy a fire suit, etc.

    According to the Wallace Racing calculator, is takes 228 HP to run 11.50 wth a 1,750 lb load (car and driver). I think the SDRA guys run against a 11.50 index. The Aussies have a slower index. True HA/GR cars with stick shifts have a harder time running in the mid 11's.

    A couple guys each throwing a hundred bucks a month in a car would have $3,600 and 2 years to build a car. With a lot of "do it yourself effort, careful shopping (Craigslist, Racing Junk, swap meets, etc) a decent car could be fielded. Adding the same amount of money over the next couple years definitely could result in a very competitive car.

    There's lots of hobbies that cost as much or more than that.

    I just wish a few people in my area wuld build cars so we could have some group fun.
     
  4. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 4,421

    64 DODGE 440
    Member
    from so cal

    Bob, you understand the concept.

    Our build has been going on for over 7 years now. Partly due to budgetary restrictions, partly due to assorted health and life event restrictions and partly due to the fact that I'm old, slow and enjoy the idea of building with some now 80 year old parts, (our 1934 Dodge engine and transmission) and making our own speed parts, (like you can go out and buy much hotrod stuff for a 1934 Dodge).

    The beauty of our hobby is that we have the option of deciding what kind of vehicle we desire, be it a Model T speedster, a belly tank lakester or anything all the way up to a full blown fuel dragster and beyond. Our only limiting factor is our skill or if that is lacking our financial situation and if we want it bad enough we'll find a way to make it happen.

    For over 20 years I was involved in aviation and we had our own aircraft. A 1946 Aeronca Champion. Cruised at around 80 to 90 MPH and low and slow was our way of life. Friends said that after a while I would want a newer and faster plane, but I never had the urge and If I could have afforded it I would have gotten something older and slower.

    I have drag raced since a group of us kids built a '53 Ford flathead powered gasser in 1962 when the three of us turned 16. Made passes in many different vehicles, at one time had a Fiat Topolino body on T rails set up for an Olds and Hydro that I never finished and a slingshot project with a 331 Chrysler Hemi that went away before it was finished due to getting drafted and starting married life back in '67. In 1969 when I returned to civilian status I ran an E Modified 250 Suzuki drag bike for a friend, turning consistent 12.20s @ 112 MPH.

    As the years passed I drifted away from drag racing as other things ran through my life. We had our son in 1970, dabbled in sports car s for a bit, have had street and desert motorcycles, played with 4 wheel drive/off road stuff, did our time in aviation and restored a Viet Nam era Dodge M37B1 3/4 ton truck from the bare frame up, where I learned the joy of playing with the Dodge flathead six.

    All that time the drag racing laid dormant in the back rooms of my interests and as the So Cal drag strips had gone away I figured that it was just another closed chapter in my book and then Old6Rodder told me about the HA/GR class. With his help, (he found and contributed our 1934 engine and trans and other parts to plant the seed and has been pushing me along through the build with some seat time in the Brick at Eagle Field as incentive). Our build began and continues. My current street toy from which I got my site name is a '64 Dodge Polara with a strong 440 and would probably run quicker than the HA/GR ever will, but that's not what it's about.

    We may never get the HA/GR to run quicker than mid 14 seconds and I don't really care, it's about running a purpose built vintage rail and wiping the bugs off my teeth after every run. :D

    Sorry for the long rambling post, but I'm old and once I get started I have trouble stopping.
     

  5. spanners
    Joined: Feb 24, 2009
    Posts: 2,073

    spanners
    Member

    You're not rambling on so don't apologize.
    I'm with you on that one Tom. I've got a later model 6 cylinder Holden motor with all the bells and whistles, ported ,polished ,balanced ,roller rockers, etc. I do sometimes wonder if I put it in the HAMBster, what sort of times it would run. I'd also have to upgrade the rest of the running gear which would bump up the cost.
    The trouble is I'm too busy enjoying using the older, less sophisticated Holden Grey motor, complete with cog-box.
    True, it will never break any records but it makes you concentrate more on what you're doing. The other plus is when someone walks past the car, does a double-take and comes back for a better look. Usually they'll say "bloody hell, it's thirty years since I've seen a Grey motor at the Drags. What times does it do? I'll keep an eye out for your runs".
    It's also cheap to run.
     
  6. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,376

    bobw
    Member

    Tom, I enjoyed your automotive and aeronautical biography. Only thing I'd question is the old part. I do believe I'm older than you but when it comes to this hobby I think I'm young (the body aches remind me of the contrary).
    I need to correct the arithmetic in my previous post. Two guys would have $4,800 available over two years, not $3,600.
    Thinking more about this subject a progresstion came to mine. Appl;ying it to old guys like us and drag racing, it goes like this:
    1. The desire to build a dragster.
    2. Actually building one.
    3. Exhibiting it.
    4. Making passes in it.
    5. Reaching new personal best times in it.
    6. Racing along side other cars of the same ilk for pleasure.
    7. Doing what it takes to beat the car in the other lane.
    8. Doing what it takes to beat everybody.
    9. Doing what it takes to win the season championship, run under the index, etc.

    To move each step along the way takes more money. Just pick the place where you are happy.
     
  7. Rostov9
    Joined: May 19, 2014
    Posts: 5

    Rostov9

    The SDRA cars capable of running the 11.50 index
    dynoed at 315 HP for the 11.60 car and on up for the faster dragsters.

    Everyone agrees it takes a minimum of 335 dyno HP
    to run the 11.50 index at Tulsa.
     
  8. RacerRoy3
    Joined: Jan 18, 2012
    Posts: 218

    RacerRoy3
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Reading all of these posts has given me hope. As long as one of us remains, HA/GR-SDRA-NWVD will live.

    64 Dodge 440: I agree with bobw. You are not as old as you think you are. Your story (and I'm sure most of the rest of us) is the root that the movement grew from.

    With very minor differences our stories are the same:

    I had an Isetta body (boy was I stupid for cutting it up) on a homemade tube frame with a 283 SBC.
    It when unfinished when my "friends and neighbors" selected me to serve my country in '66.

    After 15 months in "beautiful" Southeast Asia, I returned home to a hospital and then a discharge.
    Like many of the early hot rodding pioneers I drifted away from going straight to going round and round on dirt.

    After my second son was born in '75 the racing bug when into hibernation but didn't die. Only after my grandson asked if we could build a race car together did I realize the flame still burned.


    I don't know anything about stuff that doesn't have points and a condenser. So I filled my shop up with a bunch of "junk" (my grandson's words) from '28 to '62 and started looking for ideas.

    Through HAMB I discovered this wonderful group of throwbacks, who like me, were searching for "truth and purity". The wrenches will turn and the rod will burn shortly and I hope to share all with you who have shared you dream with me.
     
  9. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 4,421

    64 DODGE 440
    Member
    from so cal

    OK, I'll admit, I'm only 68 years old. Saturday we're going to my 50th high school reunion and thanks to Rocky Phillips I'm betting I'm going to be the only one there who has driven a twin engined dragster. I may mumble and bitch like an old curmudgeon from time to time, but life is good even with all of the grumpy worn out body parts I have created over the years and drag racing will be forever running in my veins.

    Spanners, you understand what it's really about. Living history.

    Bobw, I like your list and the concept of working your way up to the level you desire. (4, 5 & 6 are my goal with a shot at 7 somewhere down the line).

    Rostov9, I'm hoping for somewhere in the range of 125 HP and whatever that will let me run.

    RacerRoy3, you are spot on. As long as one of us crazy folks is out there banging gears and grinning until it hurts, HA/GR-SDRA-NWVD will live. Looking forward to watching your build come together.
     
  10. RoadRunner5
    Joined: Jun 5, 2013
    Posts: 76

    RoadRunner5
    Member

    440, I have already been to my 50th high school reunion, don't miss yours. The car in my picture dyno'd at 315.9 HP at 6000 and 305 tork at 4800. The car weighs 1540 empty and I weigh 220. And that car has ran 11.47 @ 115.99 MPH. It is by far the heaviest in Tulsa and the smallest motor, 233 cu. in. The Tulsa Track may be a little easier to turn a good time, one of the best prepped tracks, very smooth with about 1/2 mile shutdown. We don't have a place like Eagle Field to run a non prepped track where it is easier on standard transmission's.
     
  11. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,376

    bobw
    Member

    Rostov9, that dyno information combined with the SDRA cars' performance is far more reliable than the calculator I used. Thanks for posting that information. Now I know what to shoot for horsepower-wise. And I can factor what I might achieve with my current setup. Looks like I'm 75 HP short.

    Joe, you've achieved remarkable performance with your slant 6.

    My 55th reunion a few weeks ago was a hoot. Lots of old people there though.

    I'm hoping we can keep some conversation going during the dark, cold wintr months.
     
    RoadRunner5 likes this.
  12. bobw,
    I'm curious as to how my combo stacks up against some of the SDRA cars once I get some seat time and fine tuning done. Hoping to get some track time in while some are gettin cabin fever LOL.
     
  13. Casual 6
    Joined: May 25, 2008
    Posts: 290

    Casual 6
    Member
    from Great NW

    Is that engine dyno or chassis dyno for the HP/Torque?

     
  14. old sparks
    Joined: Mar 12, 2012
    Posts: 414

    old sparks
    Member

    It seems as though there is a bit of contention between the purists and the go fast competition is everything guys.At our age that shouldn't happen . we are to old to change our opinions so it`s just fun reading. One thing I`d like to see is people starting to tell what works and what doesn`t, both motor and drive train wise. We are so spread out that speed secrets don`t mean much
     
  15. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,376

    bobw
    Member

    Old Sparks, here's a tip: Correct me it I'm wrong, but I believe the SDRA guys in Tulsa went to automatic transmissions as a cost savings. Too much breakage with the stick set ups. For them, on their highly prepared track the stick shift set ups were a problem.
     
  16. RacerRoy3
    Joined: Jan 18, 2012
    Posts: 218

    RacerRoy3
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I think that you are correct Bob. There are a number of rules from the various groups that don't necessarily help keep costs down or make it easier to get a car on the strip. This is not to say that the "purists" can't run stick setups or hard to find rim sizes or expensive tires. It is just like old sparks says, it should be all about having fun and doing it the way we feel is right. Isn't too narrow a class spec what ruined drag racing as we knew it?
     
  17. old sparks
    Joined: Mar 12, 2012
    Posts: 414

    old sparks
    Member

    Let me declare myself. I`m one of those go fast competition guys. My car started out as an sdra build but as I had a lot of parts left over from previous eccesses, It ended up pretty far out in left field from the rules as they are. I hope that I`m not excluded from this forum.
     
  18. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 4,421

    64 DODGE 440
    Member
    from so cal

    You are more than welcome here. Post some pictures of your build when you get a chance.
     
  19. old sparks
    Joined: Mar 12, 2012
    Posts: 414

    old sparks
    Member

    I don`t know how to post pictures yet but you might have seen the car at the last eagle field event . I ran sat. It was the black bantam coupe. I had my son e-mail some pictures to old 28 but since he`s laid up, I don`t know if he got them and I don`t want to bother him.
     
  20. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,376

    bobw
    Member

    [​IMG]
    Bantam? Did you say Bantam? I bought this one a couple months ago. No firm plans yet. Would love to see pics of yours.
    When Old6 added the tub body it kinda opened up the concept of the class. Which I don't consider a class as much as a concept.
    I've measured my dragster to see if it could be converted into a slingshot. Not practical. So, I will probably add a T roadster body to it like Tom (64 DODGE 44) did.
     
  21. old sparks
    Joined: Mar 12, 2012
    Posts: 414

    old sparks
    Member

    It`s to bad you live so far away. I first set my car up for a "t body and turtle deck". I then got a hold of this bantam( glass). I think it looks ok . I`d sell the t body to you for 100$. Not worth shipping though. I`m to lazy to figure out how to post pictures. I could try to get my son to e-mail to someone if they were to give an address.
     
  22. old sparks
    Joined: Mar 12, 2012
    Posts: 414

    old sparks
    Member

    By the way, that is the nicest bantam body I`ve ever seen.
     
  23. rg171352
    Joined: Oct 24, 2007
    Posts: 505

    rg171352
    Member
    from New York

    Does that Bantam have the original floor pan still in it?
     
  24. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 4,421

    64 DODGE 440
    Member
    from so cal

    Dayum Bob. That bantam is delicious. I would have loved to put something like that on our car. Always liked the Modified Roadster/Competition Coupe cars. They just leave so much room for personality to grow.
     
  25. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

  26. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,376

    bobw
    Member

    To answer an earlier question, there is no floor or firewall in the body. It has sub rails though. I went with a friend to help load parts and this body was there. I knew about it but did not intend to buy it. However, I had just sold a truck and had some cash so I made one of my only impulse buys ever. It it is such good shape I couldn't resist.
    Four of my friends have formed a committee, and they intend to dictate what I can and cannot do with the Bantam. Guess how well that is going to work.

    The Bantam is #3 on my "to do" list.
     
    rg171352 likes this.
  27. Old28
    Joined: Jan 11, 2009
    Posts: 1,390

    Old28
    Member

    Bob, that Bantam is one of the great finds you have made, and you have got a few. My vote is for a true Street/Strip Hot Rod that you can go to lunch with the boys once a week and kick a little rubber at the strip from time to time.
     

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