No right or wrong answers, just wonder if you think of Model T Fords when you read 4Banger? When you read Ford Speedster do you think of Model T's only? First of the month is Thursday and I'm wondering were to debut the latest addition.
I do not read either so I cant answer this one...sorry. But I can say that when I think of a T, I think of go-karts hopped up on nitrous. But mostly I think of Rat Fink.
Banger = A/B. Speedster = T. ...but I would love to stand corrected if anyone's ever traced the first use of the term "4 banger"? I could see calling a T a banger, but I can't see calling an A-engined car a speedster. To me "speedster" belongs to an earlier time period. When you see people who have built "speedsters" out of Model A frames there's just something that doesn't look right. Flatheadhero...those are some nice wheels on that car of yours. Cris
banger= a,b, or t engine speedster= homemade race chassis/body on mostly t frame but have seen a shitload of a,b speedsters.
i agree with cris, a speedster is (to me) a non-model A based contraption, or as noted by the santa clara speedster run of "pre '28" constuction. a speedster is a moniker to the earliest of the grass roots hotrodders, the begining. It is also embodies as a certain style that a model A doesn't quite fit...probably as it has to many brakes. A speedster is the concept of the everyman trying to be like the early leviathans of racing: raw and unbridled. Speedsters weren't run over board tracks or smooth road courses, they were run everywhere or anything. In short it is a spirit that is involved, much like the attempts of trying to recreate the early lakes cars.
not to try and put anyones car down but compare a T vs A...this kind not that kind! both of these cars are very well made, but there is something lithe and raw about a T speedster vs. a Model A race car.
Does it have to be a Ford? For me the frame of the black race car above looks more like a Chevy. My own future project is Chevy race car with original engine and transmission, and a light hand made two seater boby, no doors etc. For me, its is both speedster and a 4banger.
I don't know whether there is a hard and fast 'rule' as to what is a banger, but the Banger Meets held each month here on the HAMB most certainly include A, B & T. Interesting to hear what people think constitutes a speedster. Again, I doubt that there is a definite rule but I like this quote a lot....
Most speedsters are Model Ts. If you look at the old, period photos there were very few As. The big thing is to take weight off and its hard to beat a fenderless A roadster or rpu. I have both!
To me, "banger" does not just apply to a specific make or model of engine. It is any 4 cylinder engine, but particularly early model fours. I've read on here, though, that "banger" was not a period term. I don't know whether that is correct or not. And, speedster does not apply to any specific make or model of car, either. It is a style of car. I've seen plenty of period and modern built A's that were speedsters, and Chevy's, too. I've only seen one or two period 1932 Ford speedsters, though. In fact, I started a thread on here asking for photos of 1932 speedsters, and I don't think that I got any responses.
To me a T is a speedster and an A is a banger, but thats just me. I have 2 friends with T speedsters and always like there raw simplicity. Here is some pics of one of them. This one has a rare Waukesha Ricardo head.
The head is a Fronty S, the body maker is unknown to me, but I think it may be Morton & Brett or Faultless. It was in a fire at one time and the firewall and wood main rails have been replaced.
wow, and its a single seater to boot! what a great find. I would agree as to your idea of what the body is. single seater first made me think Fronty, but the tail is all wrong.
37kid, You lucky bastard! Almost bought that same grill, infact... I thought it was the same one. Guess not. Please keep us updated on this project. Like every other day...
The cockpit is 33 inches wide at the hip, so its a chummy two seater, anyone got a GP Bugatti to measure? I've had this Morton & Brett flyer for years but I don't know what features I need to compare to confirm it is one, the tail on my body looks too long to be a M&B. This isn't another project, just an upgrade of the parts pile I've called a 1915 speedster. Dirtyest Devil, the radiator you didn't buy was another this one has been in a barn in New Jersey for many years. Story goes that is was rolled out to the curb in Newark on trash day many years ago. Check out the crated bodies in the photos, looks like Brookville in the 1920's!
37, I like it. Frontenac stuff is all good to me. Most of the two seaters were a bit tight. 34" or 35" is not unusual. Stagger the seats as they did and get a jockey to pump your oil and air to your fuel tank. I once shamelessly played the role of interested buyer (when my wallet was a bit thin) and had a T guy with a speedster with a Frontenac head start it up. He made up a bunch of excuses as to why we could not go for a ride, brakes weren't good no insurance etc but it sounded pretty good nevertheless. Good luck with yours-Jim
37, Could you post a profile shot of the body? It looks a bit like the Speedway Racing body in the Crag-Hunt ad on page 24 of Model T Ford in Speed & Sport.
"T" speedsters were around shortly after 'T"'s came out I have seen a lot of them from the early "20"'s. There were a lot of aftermarket bodies available for "T"'s but I think the "A" speedsters are a current thing. Don't remember any when I was growing up. I think the original term in the teens and twenty's was "Run A bout". As to "Bangers" this term started after 4 barrel carburators became common. If you go back to the drag results in the issues of Hot Rod from the early "50"'s you will see that 4 cylinder engined cars were called "4 barrel's". At that time a "banger" might have been a tractor or a sausage in Australia but in my neck of the woods 4 banger did not apply to "A"'s or "B"'s. The term speedster originally applied to a fast driver not a type of car. I think that Charlie Yapp and S O S S are more responsible for the proliferation of "A" "B" powered speedsters than anyone or anything else. Another thought, in all honesty I do recall the term "A" banger or "B" banger but never "4 banger"
Here's a shot of my friend's wife's dad's speedster he built back in the 20's. Then a picture of my friend Gabbys 'supe job' as he called it that he built in 1933. No fenders, dropped axle, raised rear crossmember, chopped windshield. The 'look' was established long before the 1940's.
From the "Hot-Rod Dictionary", Popular Science Magazine, December 1952: four banger - noun. A four-cylinder engine. You can see the "Hot-Rod Dictionary" in this thread: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101660&highlight=dictionary
it was called a FIAT style shell (cause it looks like a contemporary FIAT shell... ). It was supplied with the bodies. Very cool, very very very rare, makes my whippet look common.
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