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Fred Steele's White T Bucket - Ventures album cover car

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by RoadsterRick, Dec 19, 2009.

  1. RoadsterRick
    Joined: Dec 19, 2009
    Posts: 20

    RoadsterRick
    Member

    I have a technical question for the old guys. Being one myself, I can say that. Please recall the cover of a 1964 Ventures record album "Ventures in Space." The photo was of Fred Steele's 20-something T bucket on a model A frame or what appears to be a stock, albeit shorted, model A frame. (see photos attached).

    My question has to do with the "shortened." It appears that the frame was shorted and not Zed. How much was taken out of the frame? And, wouldn't the enclosed drive line and radius rods also have to be shortened?

    If anyone has details, please respond. If anyone has technical or detailed photos, I will compensate for reprints. And, if ReRoy "Tex" Smith in UT haunts the H.A.M.B. please contact me cause I know you took photos of this car, way back when it was actually used for the photo shoot.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. touchdowntodd
    Joined: Jan 15, 2005
    Posts: 4,068

    touchdowntodd
    Member

    im in love with this car... i started a thread here a while back about it
     
  3. RoadsterRick
    Joined: Dec 19, 2009
    Posts: 20

    RoadsterRick
    Member

    Cool! I'm doing H.A.M.B. searches regarding the chassis of this car. Would you please direct me to your previous thread?
     
  4. pasadenahotrod
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 11,775

    pasadenahotrod
    Member
    from Texas

    Looks like a set of chrome-plated 50s Chrysler Imperial wheels on that bucket, only ones I know of with the early Ford bolt pattern and the decorative holes in the wheel disc. The later Imp wheels had slightly rounded triangular holes.

    The severe angle of the rear radius rods in pic #2 at the fairgrounds says, YES the driveshaft has been shortened a good bit. Since the rearend is a later V8 one the driveshaft has been shortened much more than the frame.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2009

  5. flatoz
    Joined: May 11, 2003
    Posts: 3,237

    flatoz
    Member

    My old man stayed with Fred in the 60's he's 'swifty' here on the HAMB, pm him, he may have some photos of the car. Tex lives in my home town as such now and if you can be bothered to make an international phone call I can get you his details.

    As far as I know he's not on here.
     
  6. plym49
    Joined: Aug 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,802

    plym49
    Member
    from Earth

    Good catch on the wheels. They are definitely Imperial wheels. I remember them well from my 52 Chrysler Imperial Crown Royal limo. The wheels needed those cooling holes to cool the interesting disc brakes that were fitted - self-energizing disk brakes that used the same twin front wheel cylinders as every MoPar of the era with drum brakes.
     
  7. pasadenahotrod
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 11,775

    pasadenahotrod
    Member
    from Texas

    Yep, those crazy brakes with segmented linings and the ball bearings that ramped up the plates to stop!
     
  8. RoadsterRick
    Joined: Dec 19, 2009
    Posts: 20

    RoadsterRick
    Member

    Thank you! That's excellent information. I didn't know anything about the rims ... now I know. That's super! And I suspected as much on the shortening of the rear components. You're right, that's quite an angle.

    That's interesting about the year / type of rear end. I was thinking it was a stock model A unit. I will have to look closer … sure wish I had more detailed photos to work from. I really don't know as much as my friends believe. Yet I'm not afraid to ask, and I tend to complete all the projects I start.

    I guess my next question would be that I believe a model A frame is wider then a model T body, yet it appears that the 1920ish body fits nicely channeled to the bottom of the frame. Could it be that he (Fred Steele) pinched the frame together after he chopped it and then narrowed the rear spring cross member before reinstalling?

    It appears that the front suspension is stock model A but the steering box seems to be repositioned.

    Comments greatly appreciated and welcome.
     
  9. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,629

    The37Kid
    Member

    I thought I read that Fred still owned it or it was still up in Mass.
     
  10. trad27
    Joined: Apr 22, 2009
    Posts: 1,197

    trad27
    Member

    I have a '27 T on an A frame and it fits like a glove, the firewall is the same width but behind that the body is actualy wider than the frame. That T is an early one that is smaller but still not by much. The steering is not model A, stock model A would be mounted far more forward on the frame. My guess is that it is probly Corvair.
     
  11. kkoacolonel
    Joined: Oct 27, 2005
    Posts: 966

    kkoacolonel
    Member
    from Union,NJ

    Are you talking about the one and only Fred Steele from Mass.? The owner of the yellow 50 Merc and the Purple 32?
     
  12. hotrodroadster32
    Joined: Oct 19, 2009
    Posts: 375

    hotrodroadster32
    Member
    from Mass


    It is still in mass,Ive seen it at Tyrods,but Fred did sell it.
     
  13. 327-365hp
    Joined: Feb 5, 2006
    Posts: 5,429

    327-365hp
    Member
    from Mass

    Here's a pic I shot in '06. Fred doesn't own it anymore. He sold the purple roadster also.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. 327-365hp
    Joined: Feb 5, 2006
    Posts: 5,429

    327-365hp
    Member
    from Mass

    A couple more from Ty-Rods 08

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  15. pasadenahotrod
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 11,775

    pasadenahotrod
    Member
    from Texas

    The rearend in that T is a Columbia 2-speed. There are several flavors of it to fit 32-34, 35-38, 39-41, and 42-48 roughly.
     
  16. roadwarrior32
    Joined: Mar 20, 2009
    Posts: 108

    roadwarrior32
    Member

    Here is a photo of Fred's old T bucket with the original builder, Don Spinney.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. thewishartkid
    Joined: Jun 23, 2006
    Posts: 895

    thewishartkid
    Member

    Why would anybody sell sich a cool piece of Rodding history? That album hangs on the wall above where i park my T.
     
  18. thewishartkid
    Joined: Jun 23, 2006
    Posts: 895

    thewishartkid
    Member

  19. RoadsterRick
    Joined: Dec 19, 2009
    Posts: 20

    RoadsterRick
    Member

    That's great news! I look forward to getting a body and discovering this fact for myself. I am afraid, however, that I will probably have to use a fiberglass body since finding "good" metal bodies it really hard ... been actively looking for over a year. Found lots of junk and parts and those good ones I found were scarfed up fast for big bucks by rat rodders and similar devils.

    It does appear in the photos that the steering was an after thought and definately not model A.

    Thank you for the details.
     
  20. RoadsterRick
    Joined: Dec 19, 2009
    Posts: 20

    RoadsterRick
    Member

    WOW! Thank you for the close-up photos! I didn't have those photos. That did the trick for me.

    Thus far, between all you guys I now have pretty much all the information I need to build mine. I'm not going to do an exact clone but will stay pretty close the theme.

    Youse-guys are the best! Thank you so very much.
     
  21. The car is still in Massachusetts(Woburn to be exact).I called Fred awhile back to get some info on it when the last post was made.Don't recall the guy's full name(Roger something).Probably the reason Fred thinned out his herd is that he is in his mid-70's now and neither car(the T or the purple Deuce)was an exactly comfortable car to drive.He still has the yellow Merc and the purple 28 Model A sedan he's had since he was 14.And yes;he's still irascible as ever.
     
  22. Deuce Daddy Don
    Joined: Apr 27, 2008
    Posts: 5,544

    Deuce Daddy Don
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you look very CLOSE, you will notice that Fred was a member of the L.A.Roadsters when the pix was taken. (Lower left windshield). Last time I talked with Fred was at NATS in 1972 detroit, he still had the T at that time.----Don
     
  23. Marcia
    Joined: Feb 27, 2009
    Posts: 937

    Marcia
    Member

    The album cover has hung in my bedroom for the last 30 years..... for ambiance. The first car my husband built was a T bucket because of that album cover.
     
  24. butch27
    Joined: Dec 10, 2004
    Posts: 2,847

    butch27
    Member

    Try the tbucketeers site for any info also.
     
  25. I have a friend with a VERY decent (Hi Mike), early (1 door) T-tub available. Buy it and I'll deliver it to Turlock in Jan. Remeber that the A diff has a SOLID driveshaft that also acts as the pinion. Hard to shorten...
     
  26. you sure about that? They look like '40 ford centers with drilled vents.
     
  27. Angry Frenchman
    Joined: Feb 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,775

    Angry Frenchman
    Member

    Fred still gets around. we got to see him at our club's car show in Natick mass. also shorting A torque tube is not the end of the world.
     
  28. oldebob
    Joined: Oct 21, 2008
    Posts: 782

    oldebob
    Member
    from Spokane WA

    Ask Fred if he still has his violin if you see him again. He'll know what you mean.:D
     
  29. BISHOP
    Joined: Jul 16, 2006
    Posts: 2,571

    BISHOP
    Member

    RoadsterRick, that is a strange avatar. Its like your staring at me.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2009
  30. pasadenahotrod
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 11,775

    pasadenahotrod
    Member
    from Texas

    Incorrect, friend. The Model A has a solid bar driveshaft which is attached to the pinion gear as the 32-34 shafts are connected to the pinion.

    The one-piece driveshaft/pinion gear setup was only used for 2 years, on the 39 and 40 Mercury cars.
     

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