if you know anything about ford mel engines read this..and speak up!

[patrick english]

so i just got a 60 falcon..and i want to do a gasser type build..my buddy has a few of these ford mel engines laying around.he sudgested using a mel 430..it sounds good to me but ive been doing a bit of reading on these engines and it seems like parts are very hard to find and expensive..i know egge offers piston kits but are flat tops?..is that really a big deal?i read somewhere that if you use flat top pistons in these engines they run like crap..is that really true?does anyone have experience with these engines..(yes i know there are a few threads about the mel engines..i read them all)anybody have a build thread using a mel?..also,the condition of the engines he has is unknown..do you think it would be doable for a poor man build?..i really only have about $300 extra a month after bills and whatnot..would it take me all year to build this engine?
is anyone offering speed parts for these engines?thanks,
pat

[Rusty O'Toole]

Why don't you ask your buddy what he's got and where he gets parts? While you are over there measure one of those engines and see how it will fit.

Those engines are very big and heavy. If you want performance you will be better off with a small block based engine like a 302, 351 or 400M. If you use the MEL engine you will have to shell out the front of the car and build a frame and a front suspension plus it will be way too nose heavy unless you set the engine way back. But will get oohs and aahs at the A&W.

[hotroddon]

There is very little in the way of speed equipment available for the MEL. And what you can find will be pricey. If you want to keep that vibe, go with an FE

[48 Chubby]

They are really big, really heavy, and start making good horse power some where north of $5000.
Take a guess as to why they are still laying around? A 351 Windsor will be cheaper, easier, and likely to out run it.

[patrick english]

he doesnt build these.just has them laying around..the mels are at his storage.were suppoesed to go check them out this weekend.
well i was planning on doing the straight axle front end anyways.and i do love root beer...

Originally Posted by Rusty O'Toole

Why don't you ask your buddy what he's got and where he gets parts? While you are over there measure one of those engines and see how it will fit.

Those engines are very big and heavy. If you want performance you will be better off with a small block based engine like a 302, 351 or 400M. If you use the MEL engine you will have to shell out the front of the car and build a frame and a front suspension plus it will be way too nose heavy unless you set the engine way back. But will get oohs and aahs at the A&W.

[patrick english]

Originally Posted by 48 Chubby

They are really big, really heavy, and start making good horse power some where north of $5000.
Take a guess as to why they are still laying around? A 351 Windsor will be cheaper, easier, and likely to out run it.

daaaaannnnng!!!...5000?..my uncle had a 351 in a ranchero..that thing was fast as hell..

[patrick english]

Originally Posted by hotroddon

There is very little in the way of speed equipment available for the MEL. And what you can find will be pricey. If you want to keep that vibe, go with an FE

fa sho.

[COOTER]

Search Kanter Auto Parts and Lincoln Parts International. It could get expensive if you need a full rebuild and I believe you're very limited on transmissions that bolt right up. Although, you wouldn't need much "speed equipment" to make that light car haul ass.

[No_Respect]

I have a very expensive habbit when it comes to my MEL I have over 6000 in recipts and that is not counting the 6 carbs I still need (97's jetted for race gas) I would walk away while your ahead of the game.

[patrick english]

allright ill give those a look.

Originally Posted by COOTER

Search Kanter Auto Parts and Lincoln Parts International. It could get expensive if you need a full rebuild and I believe you're very limited on transmissions that bolt right up. Although, you wouldn't need much "speed equipment" to make that light car haul ass.

[patrick english]

Originally Posted by No_Respect

I have a very expensive habbit when it comes to my MEL I have over 6000 in recipts and that is not counting the 6 carbs I still need (97's jetted for race gas) I would walk away while your ahead of the game.

yeah thats alot.. i dont have that kind of money..now im thinking if i can soop up the 6 thats in it..

[No_Respect]

I don't think so... I have had lots of offers... I am in the process of making a finned aluminum timing cover for mine already got finned valve covers and a plug for a valley cover

[brad chevy]

Find you a good 289-302-or 351 you will be throwing money away trying to beef up the 6 in it now. If you look around you can find you a running 302 with a C-4 behind it for $500 to $600.

[tommyd]

Originally Posted by No_Respect

I have a very expensive habbit when it comes to my MEL I have over 6000 in recipts and that is not counting the 6 carbs I still need (97's jetted for race gas) I would walk away while your ahead of the game.

Walk away......thats funny and also some good advice. Man! sounds like that engine is testing your patience.

[64gal]

For performance and little money, go with the smallblock! 289 or 302, the 351 has a taller deck and is a tighter fit(more work and grief). Also try to get an engine and trans from the same vehicle,get everything you can, so you dont have to worry about finding the correct flywheel or bell or starter or flexplate, etc. There will be little problems, but that should be a bolt in swap.Get the correct framestands for a v8 falcon. Have fun!! Regards, Tom.

[No_Respect]

Originally Posted by tommyd

Walk away......thats funny and also some good advice. Man! sounds like that engine is testing your patience.

Testing no my patience went out the door with this motor in 2004

[patrick english]

so i guess the mel is a bad idea...

[shocker998md]

screw a small block. Go with an FE. Buy urself a cheap 390 a stroke it to 445. It will be cheaper then building a 430.

Or build a 390 and put a blower on it. If you cant tell I like FE engines.

[56ih]

I wouldn't say the 430 is a bad idea...if you can get away with re-ringing a '58-'59 engine then you can have a monster in a lightened Falcon. It will take some work to fit it in the engine bay, but it seems like you're going to run a different axle anyhow so the shock towers will be cut out regardless. And if you use the early MEL then you can change your mind later and whatever tranny you use will fit an FE pattern bell housing.

Just be warned...MEL infatuation is a sickness for which there is no cure! They are cool ass engines that don't get nearly enough love. I guess that's good though--more for me!

[Reijer]

I'll speak up. If money is tight don't even think about having a MEL motor rebuilt. Trust me.


But if you can find a running MEL 430 or MEL 462, I'd definitely consider it. You can find them for around $250. They are almost bullet proof when in good condition. They are nicknamed 'Bulldozers' for a reason.

- Buy it only if the oil pressure (check with an external mechanical gage) and compression check out
- After you buy one, it's absolutely necessary to replace the original timing set that most likely will still be in there with a set from Cloyes. Here's why: http://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb...hp?f=1&t=30449
- Replace the original oil pump with a high volume pump (not a high pressure pump) from Mellings. Your heads will thank you as oil has a bit of a problem getting up if the motor has never internally been cleaned of gunk. Not necessary on rebuilt MELs.
- Replace your original oil pump drive shaft with this billet drive shaft from Precision Oil Pumps in Ca, (559)325-3553. The original is literally as thin as a pencil and really isn't up to the job. This replacement works for the MEL engines. It is an FE drive that is +.0375" Longer for Main Girdle Applications. This shaft is about .075 too long, but the MEL guys get them and grind that amount off the bottom (pump end) to make them fit. Just use a bench grinder. The shafts are $20.00 plus shipping.


- Take a peak behind the water pump. If the two original core thermostats are still in place, remove and do not replace (they were not used after '63). Make sure the two water diverters are in good conditions.

- The 430 and 462 have a crank driven PS pump (that only takes ATF type F). They're costly to replace... +/- $350 + core change/charge. You might consider fabbing a pulley driven PS pump.

+1 on the 'no aftermarket speed parts' availability. Replacement parts are available but pricey... check out LincolnLand and Baker's Auto. There are no OEM domed pistons available for the MEL 430, but Egge supplies the other mentioned vendors with ones for the 462 that are very close: http://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb...hp?f=1&t=36860

[Verminator]

small block would be easiest to fit and cheapest to make HP. For impressive big block power 460 next cheap HP, 390 FE very cool, but bigger $ to make power

[1950ChevySuburban]

What's a MEL exactly? Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln?

[Reijer]

Correct.


FWIW, they were an option in Thunderbirds for a few years.

[Blue One]

I know there are plenty of them around and nobody wants them. Good boat anchors and scrap metal haulers love them because they are big and heavy and bring a good scrap price.

[porknbeaner]

Originally Posted by patrick english

so i just got a 60 falcon..and i want to do a gasser type build..my buddy has a few of these ford mel engines laying around.he sudgested using a mel 430..it sounds good to me but ive been doing a bit of reading on these engines and it seems like parts are very hard to find and expensive..i know egge offers piston kits but are flat tops?..is that really a big deal?i read somewhere that if you use flat top pistons in these engines they run like crap..is that really true?does anyone have experience with these engines..(yes i know there are a few threads about the mel engines..i read them all)anybody have a build thread using a mel?..also,the condition of the engines he has is unknown..do you think it would be doable for a poor man build?..i really only have about $300 extra a month after bills and whatnot..would it take me all year to build this engine?
is anyone offering speed parts for these engines?thanks,
pat

If you got to ask you can't afford it.

Parts are a little pricey, not more expensive than flathead parts of hemi parts or even olds, buick or pontiac parts for that matter.

You can get forged pistons for them from JE. They'll make a piston to fit anything you got. With the JE piston you can take advantage of having a lighter than stock piston as well as modern rings. Those engines were not more than 10:1 from the factory and more likely in the 8-9:1 range.

You can get a cam shaft ground from many of the major cam companinies. Probably if you call isky they even still have a blank laying around, or you can have your stock cam reground.

Intakes are available but they will cost you whatever the seller wants and you are willing to give. Or you can go off the deep end and build your own.

You won't find headers or header kits for the engine, but again you may have to do it the way they used to do it.

If you are going to build any kind of an engine that is stout it will take you at least a year @ 300 dollars a month. Maybe two years if you are serious about going fast. that is just the nature of the beats.

I like MEL engines, I have owned a couple of stockers in big old whales of a car. They were never the engine of choice among racers I am afraid.

A more common swap in your falcon would have been an SBF. I used to see a lot of them in the later '60s with little cobra jet engines in them.

[Bigjake]

We had a 67 Lincoln Continental with a 462 when I was younger. That thing would cruise at 100 mph all day long and was smooth as smooth could be, MEL's have ton's of torque, 462's are pushing 500 ft pounds bone stock. That said they expensive to rebuild and heavy, but don't require any speed equipment to make a 60 falcon smoke the tires all day long.

[patrick english]

hey,thanks for all the responses on this..i thought this thread had died..i really want to use a mel.ive been doing alot of searching on this stuff and i found complete rebuild kits for around 900 bucks.the same kits for fe engines are not really that much cheaper..and ive focused my attention to just rebuilding a stock mel..i think you guys are right when you say a mel in a 60 falcon will be plenty power..im not trying to break any speed records.i just want to build a fast car.

[Revhead]

Rebuilding a MEL can not only be expensive because of parts, but the deck surface is not perpendicular to the bore. Most boring bars expect to use the deck surface to mount on and bore at a 90 degree angle to that. Can't do that on MEL. In this day and age you'd probably have an easier time finding a machine shop with a CNC block machine, than a guy with the proper tooling for a MEL.

I have a Mercury 383 and grabbed a Edelbrock LM6 6X2 intake for it and I have never built it. The parts prices keep forcing me to put it back on the shelf.

[patrick english]

so nobody in so cal can properly bore a mel?

[Revhead]

No, I didn't say that, I'm jut saying that you'll have to find the right shop, and they will probably want extra to do the job.

[FrozenMerc]

Boring an MEL is no different the boring a Chevy 348/409. On both engines the deck is angled at 10 deg. away from perpendicular to the bore. Most decent shops have the equipment to bore an engine when the deck isn't square. DO your homework and shop around.

[critchdizzle]

+1 on the FE

[big M]

I've owned and built many of these engines years back for my Mercs, even in the early eighties parts were hard to come by and expensive. The high compression '58 engines produced a nice bit of torque and would easily spin the tires on my big old tanks. Holman/Moody campaigned these for a short while before befriending the FE series engines. The bellhousing pattern on the early MEL's were the same as the FE engines, and used the same flywheels.

Basically it boils down to availability of parts and your budget, it will cost plenty to build up one with any period speed equipment, unless you are very lucky and find a stash of parts. Edsel had a 410 MEL in '58 [not to be confused with the '66-7 Merc FE 410] Merc had a 383 from '58-'60 which was a destroked 430. Also ariving in '58 was the 430, standard in Lincoln, and optional in Mercury and Thunderbird. The block was changed somewhat in the early sixties to a different bell pattern and starter location. 462 CID superceded the 430 starting in '66 and running midway into the '68 model year, Lincoln only, and was then replaced by the 429/460 engine family.

---John

[patrick english]

Originally Posted by Revhead

No, I didn't say that, I'm jut saying that you'll have to find the right shop, and they will probably want extra to do the job.

ahh i see.

[patrick english]

Originally Posted by FrozenMerc

Boring an MEL is no different the boring a Chevy 348/409. On both engines the deck is angled at 10 deg. away from perpendicular to the bore. Most decent shops have the equipment to bore an engine when the deck isn't square. DO your homework and shop around.

right on.thanks dude.ive pretty much decided im getting a mel..my buddy is going to give me one for hauling some stuff to the dump..so pretty much free..

[rld14]

Watch those rebuild kits! Lots of pistons for sale for MELs are flat top pistons... those turn a 10.0:1 motor to an 8.0:1

Last I remembered reading, a CORRECT set of Pistons for an MEL could run ya $800-1000. Think custom made from Wiseco. Egge has them but they aren't correct and you'll lose compression and power.

So you should look to double your parts estimates at least. Also, if you can find a good running '58 engine, grab it. 365hp and 495 lb-ft, stock outta the box.

I love my MEL in my Lincoln, even more than my Y block.

[patrick english]

yeah ive read that too.thanks for the tip..well my bud says hes sure that at least one of them is a free moving engine..so ill just have to wait and see what the condition is when i get it..im hoping i could just get away with new bearings and rings...

[Reijer]

Originally Posted by rld14

Also, if you can find a good running '58 engine, grab it. 365hp and 495 lb-ft, stock outta the box.

From what I've read, the MEL engine was originally developed with racing in mind (for a racing class that fell through) and was de-tuned for its application in Lincolns and Continentals. The engineers tuned down the first '58 MEL because it was too powerful for the owners of the cars it was used in.

[No_Respect]

Still havent given up yet Pat? Good luck on your quest... I believe I have Wiseco or crower? pistons in mine and from what I remember they were not cheap...

[patrick english]

hell yeah!!

Originally Posted by Reijer

From what I've read, the MEL engine was originally developed with racing in mind (for a racing class that fell through) and was de-tuned for its application in Lincolns and Continentals. The engineers tuned down the first '58 MEL because it was too powerful for the owners of the cars it was used in.

[patrick english]

haha,nope..i spend a few hours a day looking for parts and info.thanks..i think i got a lead on something cool..not guna say what till i get a confirmation

how much were the pistons and rings?

Originally Posted by No_Respect

Still havent given up yet Pat? Good luck on your quest... I believe I have Wiseco or crower? pistons in mine and from what I remember they were not cheap...

[Reijer]

Patrick, if that deal falls through contact NewLincolnMan (Alex) at thelincolnforum.net. He sells running MELs now and then, advertised with videos of them running on a frame with working gauges etc.

[patrick english]

wow thats crazy!!!...i wonder what they would charge for something like that??

[Reijer]

Ask him. He's a hobbyist.... not a vendor.

[hot74roadrunner]

use the mel cheaper to build than a 460 if you know were and what to get and if your gonna rev it up in a gasser the info on the high volume is wrong you need high pressure its a pretty simple motor it will fit right in that falcon if you know what to do there are alot of people here on the hamb that will give you misguided info on these except for that gizzle hopper guy everyone that seems to have one is always sitting in a model a apart not running and everytime you ask the gizzle dude a question on the mel hi po subject he seems to have forgotten amneisa i guess or he has other people do his work and pretends to be an expert my mel is running in my 55 ford ready for the strip so if you need to know anything in the real world pm me you can rebuild the whole engine for less than 700 and as in the 58s yes bigger heads but you can port the intake and use 428 super cobra jet valves and thats the same just a little better you should get one and try you just need a good heavy duty harbor frieght hoist and with out the intake and exuast manifolds the are only30 pounds heavier than an fe ford and 90 pounds lighter than a 440 mopar and you never seem to hear anyone put those down

[Reijer]

Cheaper to rebuild a MEL than a 460? You're having a laugh, aren't you?

[patrick english]

i kinda feel bad about keeping this post going...ive decided to use the fe 390...i really like the idea of using the mel but i got a deal on a factory tri power intake for the fe and my bud has an fe heel let go for a good price..

ive also herd the mel is not much heavier then the fe,but i still havnt found any full rebuild kits for the mel for under 900 bucks..

i can be a bit impulsive..(this whole build started with an impulse purchase)but im sticking to the basic direction..changing ideas here and there along the way.

[stealthcruiser]

Originally Posted by hot74roadrunner

use the mel cheaper to build than a 460 if you know were and what to get and if your gonna rev it up in a gasser the info on the high volume is wrong you need high pressure its a pretty simple motor it will fit right in that falcon if you know what to do there are alot of people here on the hamb that will give you misguided info on these except for that gizzle hopper guy everyone that seems to have one is always sitting in a model a apart not running and everytime you ask the gizzle dude a question on the mel hi po subject he seems to have forgotten amneisa i guess or he has other people do his work and pretends to be an expert my mel is running in my 55 ford ready for the strip so if you need to know anything in the real world pm me you can rebuild the whole engine for less than 700 and as in the 58s yes bigger heads but you can port the intake and use 428 super cobra jet valves and thats the same just a little better you should get one and try you just need a good heavy duty harbor frieght hoist and with out the intake and exuast manifolds the are only30 pounds heavier than an fe ford and 90 pounds lighter than a 440 mopar and you never seem to hear anyone put those down

What?

[mike hohnstein]

Originally Posted by stealthcruiser

What?

More like WTF????

[FrozenMerc]

In most cases, I try to stick up for the American Public School system. I mean, I turned out some what OK....

But this is just plain embarrassing.

Originally Posted by hot74roadrunner

use the mel cheaper to build than a 460 if you know were and what to get and if your gonna rev it up in a gasser the info on the high volume is wrong you need high pressure its a pretty simple motor it will fit right in that falcon if you know what to do there are alot of people here on the hamb that will give you misguided info on these except for that gizzle hopper guy everyone that seems to have one is always sitting in a model a apart not running and everytime you ask the gizzle dude a question on the mel hi po subject he seems to have forgotten amneisa i guess or he has other people do his work and pretends to be an expert my mel is running in my 55 ford ready for the strip so if you need to know anything in the real world pm me you can rebuild the whole engine for less than 700 and as in the 58s yes bigger heads but you can port the intake and use 428 super cobra jet valves and thats the same just a little better you should get one and try you just need a good heavy duty harbor frieght hoist and with out the intake and exuast manifolds the are only30 pounds heavier than an fe ford and 90 pounds lighter than a 440 mopar and you never seem to hear anyone put those down

[patrick english]

lol...glad nobody cares

[Bigcheese327]

Originally Posted by patrick english

lol...glad nobody cares

A tri-power 390 in a '60 Falcon is plenty cool. Are you going to start a seperate build thread, or should we follow this one?

[patrick english]

right on.thanks..

no.this was just a thread about mels..but i will be starting a build thread around halloween time.im just collecting parts and tools right now..i just got a brand new millermatic 211...sweet!!

[mart3406]

Originally Posted by patrick english

right on.thanks.. no.this was just
a thread about mels..but i will be
starting a build thread around
halloween time.im just collecting
parts and tools right now..i just got
a brand new millermatic 211...sweet!!

------------
A 390 in an early Falcon will be
cool. But just so you know what
you're getting into, a Ford FE is
not going to fit between the spring
pockets in the inner-fenders of a
'60 Falcon - and even if it did, the
stock stamped sheet-metal unbody
and front front suspension won't
handle the weight. The original
Falcolns were only really ever
designed to have a an inline-6
in them and to fit anything wider
than even a 289 or 302 into an
early Falcon, you're going to have
to either cut and reinforce the stock
spring pockets and move the springs
outboard - or - remove the stock coil
spring pockets (or just eliminate the
inner fender panels altogether) - and
then - if you want I.F.S - use a front
frame clip from another car - or if
I.F.S is not important or wanted -
build your own sub-frame from 2X4
steel tubing to mount a pair of leaf
springs and a straight axle.

Mart3406
==========

[patrick english]

"build your own sub-frame from 2X4
steel tubing to mount a pair of leaf
springs and a straight axle."


nailed it...i will be building a new frame out of 2x4 steel..the plan is to build a complete running rolling chasiss and put the falcon body on top..

[hot74roadrunner]

thats right wright wtf you dont know or havent built any mels latley. you must be one of these guys with, or knows someone with a mel thats sitting on an engine stand and not haulin ass down the road. and to the guy that says i cant build one cheaper than a 460 you are wrong you can like i mentioned. you just have to know were to get parts the only thing that is pricey are the intake adapters unless you make your own then thats abought 125 bucks.you can adapt a 460 intake a 351 /400 m intake,351 cleavland,and a 426 hemi i know i have adapted all of them.

[Ghost of ElMirage]

Seems that the MELs would make nice boat anchors. Why not build a really sweet FE with a simple tube chassis?