Technical Piston Ring Installations (Wet or Dry??)

[Mr48chev]

Originally Posted by re-animator

I knew a guy that dunked them in a coffee can filled with oil...but I do a light coat on the walls and a drop on the rings myself.....

I didn't realize that we knew each other. I've done that for the past 50 years and one reason is that it also lubes the wrist pin so you don't have troubles with it. When the short block is together I wipe the exces oil off the tops of the pistons before putting the heads on.

[mctim64]

Lots of oil! coat the cylinders and squirt some on the rings. never dry.

[Larry T]

I oil the pins and the cylinder walls, wipe the compression rings and skirts with an oily rag just enough that they don't look dry and that's it.

If you prelube the engine before you fire it up, it'll be throwing enough oil around to keep things lubed when you fire it up.
Larry T

[john mullen]

me I use Lubraplate on everything that moves on anything else. once the engine is assymbled I squirt some oil on top of the pistons and fire it up. always pre prime and use zink additive and non detergent oil... let it run just long enough to set the timing then let it cool. Refire the engine and run at around 1800 for 1/2 hour. let it cool and retorque the heads... Drive the snot out of it for 500 miles and change the oil and filter.. switch to mobile One 15w40 and Z-MAX oil treatment from then on....Done

[moonman29]

Thanks for all your replies. I also oil all the rings, pins, skirts and walls. I guess i have been doing right all this time.

[MarkL]

All great advice here, plus with todays oil dont forget a good zinc additive.

[firingorder1]

I always oil the rings and cylinder wall. New parts have to get to know each other. You want a long term relationship. Not a one night stand.

[CutawayAl]

Originally Posted by jbrittonjr

My pop liked to use STP motor treatment. STP is like a very viscous oil.
I prefer to use plenty of 10w30 oil.

Although STP was marketed otherwise, motor oil is a better lubricant than STP.

Originally Posted by john mullen

me I use Lubraplate on everything that moves

Lubriplate makes a lot of different products. If you are talking about the traditional white grease that was commonly used on door latches, compared to oil it's not a very good lubricant. At one time many used it for engine assy lube and got away with it, but either oil or a good assy lube are much better choices.

Some also like to use chassis grease for assy and priming oil pumps. The one of several reason for not doing that is that is; chassis grease and motor oil are not compatible. Although you wouldn't want to use it as an assy lube, I have seen a couple cases where manufacturers recomended using petroleum jelly(Vaseline) for priming oil pumps, and in one case specifically advised against using chassis grease.

[J scow]

Originally Posted by john mullen

Refire the engine and run at around 1800 for 1/2 hour. let it cool and retorque the heads...

Easy on the re-torque. That advice on the wrong motor could turn out bad.

[chaos10meter]

Originally Posted by CutawayAl

I built engines for a number of years, from industrial engines and motorcycles to street and race cars. I always heavily oiled the rings when installing and never saw any ill effects. The only engine I ever had to re-do was one that owner installed with bad radiator hose and knowingly continued driving after the hose failed.

On the other hand; a machinist/engine builder friend of mine, who has been involved in some well known and sucessful race teams, says putting any oil on the ring grooves is bad.

As happens so many times on the internet, you can find whatever answer you like.

I wonder why he would think this ?
Just curious.

[Waddayacare]

Always wet!

[GirchyGirchy]

Originally Posted by moonman29

Thanks for all your replies. I also oil all the rings, pins, skirts and walls. I guess i have been doing right all this time.

Yup. I work at an engine assembly plant and we have a machine to oil the bores. The operators then oil the pistons prior to installation.

[Tom S. in Tn.]

Here is a very interesting discussion recently posted right here on HAMB a week or so back about a new motor that had dry cylinders;

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...re+in+the+hole

Now, for what it's worth, all my instructors always told me to assemble using motor oil like will be used once in service only, and sparingly around the ring lands so none will be left to get trapped and coke up into carbon once hot and running.

The way I do it......... Tom S.

[GREASER815]

When building an engine I believe oil or a good assembly lube is your friend and you really can't go wrong except if your not using it.

[Tom S. in Tn.]

#28;
CutawayAl

---

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbrittonjr
My pop liked to use STP motor treatment. STP is like a very viscous oil.
I prefer to use plenty of 10w30 oil.

Although STP was marketed otherwise, motor oil is a better lubricant than STP.

__________________________________________________ ________________

Believe it or not Al, my great uncle who was an old school mechanic even to blacksmiths, was marketed so hard in the late 60's to believe this, he actually used to heat this stuff on the stove top so he could pour it in automatic transmissions!
I never saw one torn down after this, but I used to cringe and tried for years without luck to get him to stop.

I know engines with only one pint of this stuff could not have it cleaned and removed by Oakite in a hot tank once torn down for rebuild. 1 pint permanently penetrated every pore of cast iron and even steel it was exposed to, and could not be removed.
Tom S. in Tn.

[CutawayAl]

Originally Posted by chaos10meter

I wonder why he would think this ?
Just curious.

I'm curious too. He offered no explanation or theories. He just said engines made more power his way. Burned oil deposits could be a reason, but tit seems believe any excess oil that hasn't already drained away will be warmed and dissipated before it has a chance to produce carbon deposits. It doesn't take much oil to lubricate, so maybe it's a case where more isn't better? In spite of his advice I still oil the rings pretty well, I just don't saturate them like I used to.

[CutawayAl]

Originally Posted by Tom S. in Tn.

I know engines with only one pint of this stuff could not have it cleaned and removed by Oakite in a hot tank once torn down for rebuild. 1 pint permanently penetrated every pore of cast iron and even steel it was exposed to, and could not be removed.

Depositing a waxy coating to the inside of the engine is the one thing STP was good for.

[Tom S. in Tn.]

Originally Posted by CutawayAl

I'm curious too. He offered no explanation or theories. He just said engines made more power his way. Burned oil deposits could be a reason, but tit seems believe any excess oil that hasn't already drained away will be warmed and dissipated before it has a chance to produce carbon deposits. It doesn't take much oil to lubricate, so maybe it's a case where more isn't better? In spite of his advice I still oil the rings pretty well, I just don't saturate them like I used to.

I was always told that in the upper compression ring lands where no drain back holes are present, oil trapped there would cook under the intense heat in that area, coke up and eventually create hard carbon that would affect rings ability to expand and contract, and function effectively by sticking.

The other side of the equation is, iron against iron will not effectively create a pneumatic seal sufficient to build suitable compression, so oil has to be present to seal micro pores and imperfections between the 2 surfaces.
I found the story from HAMB member Tommy and his Ford quite informative with regard to this topic.

Question for the advanced class: Anyone ever try to start or do a leak down test on a race motor with 'gas ported' pistons that has been sitting in storage for an extended period?
Tom S. in Tn.

[Engine man]

I'm a dunker. I always used Valvoline racing oil in engines and the build, thoroughly dunking the pistons for several minutes. It's a messy install but the oil is ashless. Most of it runs out of the cylinder when the engine is upside down to torque the rods and install the pan. I pour oil in the pistons just before installing the pan.

I don't leave oil on top of the pistons when installing the heads unless
I know the engine will sit for a few weeks before being started.
If I start an engine on a stand and it won't be installed for a while, I use a fogger when I shut it down.

[ClayMart]

I can't think fo a single moving piece in an engine that's going to suffer from a little extra oil on startup. Just oil is probably fine if the engine is being started soon after assembly. If it's going to sit for a spell before startup I'd assemble it with a 50/50 mix of oil and STP or oil and GM E.O.S. assembly lube. If it's got a new flat tappet cam and lifters, give them an extra coating of E.O.S. or something similar with some zinc.

Assembling things with just STP or E.O.S. doesn't sound like a good idea to me either. Good call on making sure the wrist pins are lubed too.