Technical Buying other people's old hot rods

I've been seeing a lot of people buying other people's old hot rods, or "barn finds" I've noticed alot of them seem to have engine swaps dome to them, that makes me think how well these engine swaps have been done.

Personally the engine swap I've had to deal with is probably the worst one imaginable. Though the person who had done the work was young at the time. Like the same age as I am now.

But still that makes me think, weren't most people who were doing engine swaps back in the 50's/60's mostly kids in highschool? How did they know what they were doing?

I don't really know where I'm going with this thread I guess I'm still questioning how someone could just drop an engine in a truck and just be like "oh yeah this will hold up to an engine built for torque no problem" yet the engines not even mounted straight.

In order for this whole thread to have a point, in my mind, I need to ask a a in question. So if you have a old hot rod how's the engine been mounted in yours, did you have to redo it?

BTW I realize now when I refer to my truck most of you have no idea what the hell I'm talking about, it's a 42-47 (I honestly have no real idea what year it is) ford jailbar pickup that my uncle dumped a 360 cid fe into.
To give you an idea of what I'm dealing with here's a pic of the tranny crossmember, it's the original one cut in half with another half of some random crossmember and a peice of box tubing welded to the top of it.



I thank you if you actually read my pointless rant of sorts, I'm just questioning if I'm just unlucky or if you guys are riding around in some really sketchy ass cars.

 

I have no answer, but before you continue I would invest in jack stands and loose the concrete blocks.

 

Back then you did what you think would work. IMO for the most part you were just making the vehicle better and many were not building to race them. That's a different story.
I like reading about how someone "restored" some hot rod built in the 40-50's and all the welds and wiring were perfect, yeah RIIGGHHTT.
To me the biggest drawback was the lack of money but over abundance of enthusiasm made up for especially if you didn't live in a big city. Rural people could fix most anything. Good luck.

 

The blocks will break.

 

yes, ditch the blocks

and while it's true a lot of crappy work was done on rods in the 50s/60s , there are probably just as many examples of outstanding workmanship too. take a look at the work of guys like Norm Brabowski , Tony Nancy, Kent Fuller , Dean Lowe , etc...top notch work even by today's standard

i don't want you to think everything back then was hacked up

 

You got to remember back in the early days it was well before 1 800 credit card building. You scrounged what you could find that you could cut up with a torch and weld up with a stick welder and make it work, kinda like your transmission cross member. Not pretty but it got the job done. As far as how did young guys do it with the lack of experience they just winged it, learned as they went. When I think back to when I started I can't believe some of the stuff I did without really having a clue how. Some how muddled thru and got better and more experience as I went.

 

I've often bought someone else's built cars and from there I've made them my own. One that comes to mind was a small block chevy in one of my previous '40 Fords. The engine mounts were home made, using mid 60's side mounts. One of the engine mounts failed while I was driving it, causing damage to the radiator, trans mount, and other small details. When I tried to reuse the mounts they had welded to the frame, the bolts wouldn't line up, the bolt holes were not straight causing (in my unprofessional opinion) premature wear on the rubber side mounts. I torched them off and bought a set from Chassis Engineering. I'm not a fabricator sorta guy but I can fix it by using a kit (such as Chassis Engineering). Sorry I don't have any pictures, most likely one of the things I'd like to forget.

 

I just sold my 47 coupe that I built when I was 20/21 back in 1988. I know for a fact some of the work was sub-par but I didnt give a shit and the car took me on several 600 mile trips with no problems. Im sure the new owner will be shaking his head on some of the workmanship but I did tell him that I built the car in the dirt next to my folks house when I was but a wee lad.

 

For high school kids in the '50's, it was frequently "whatever gets the job done". I remember a kid on the next block was putting a relatively scarce Chevy V-8 (the term small block was a decade or two in the future) in a '49 or so Chevy. Finding someone in the neighborhood with an arc welder was near impossible so he hired a portable welder to come out and gas weld the 1/2" plate motor mounts (Those V-8's were HOT) to the frame. Seemed iffy even at the time, but it did work. Imagine the comments if that car was found today in a barn.

 

Isn't stuff like that still going on today?

 

I have bought several low buck rides that modifications were done by previous owners. all were for the most part done well. some I would just go forward with my ideas/likes. others needed some work redone. but, while looking looking at possible purchases it was amazing how crappy some work was done. mainly not dealing properly with rusted frames & bodies & worn out suspension..

 

Thanks for the answers, I never really thought that all or even most were hacked together, though I had a feeling a few were.

Stick welding is definitely on my list of things to learn how to do, especially since I already have one. Now I'm wondering why it never occurred to me that I could stick weld motor mounts all these times I've been compaining about not having a welder to make mounts with. Lol

As for that block I have as a jackstand, remember how I said that stuff about kids in highschool not having that much knowledge... there you go, the block was actually all solid cement all the way through but yeah I have no Idea why I didn't just use one if the 50 jackstands we have.

 

There was a lot of sub standard work done in the past. I remember a 56 Chev in a junk yard that had an Olds V8 in it. Someone dropped the V8 and Hydramatic into the car, stuck pieces of angle iron between the engine block and frame and arc welded them in place. Directly to the block and the frame.

I don't know what they did for a crossmember or drive shaft, I was afraid to look. But it had obviously been driven like that.

 

Hello,
My first 40 Ford Sedan Delivery once had a 348 W/3 speed in it running around the Bixby Knolls area. When I first saw it, it was impressive. Everything was done well and looked very clean. Plus, it was very fast. Later on, he converted the 348 into a simple Flathead and 3 speed to sell the delivery to me. Now, it was affordable. That 40 Ford Sedan Delivery took me/us to thousands of miles of trouble free running all up and down the So Cal coastline. Only once, did we have to push start it downhill on an on ramp of the I-5 Freeway south. Other than that, the conversion was done correctly and again, it was a very neat install.

So, how did this high school teenager know how to do all of this? There were manufacturers that produced the exact motor mounts for XXX motor to go into a variety of car models. The trans mount was the same...XXX motor+XXX trans into a certain model car, etc. Most speed shops carried the easiest conversion kits. Mail order was another way to get what you wanted. This guy that built the 348 into the 40 Sedan Delivery went on to partner/build a top fuel FED in the mid to late 60's. So, he must have some knowledge? My 1000+++ miles of driving proved the great mechanic that he was back then.

Jnaki
My thousands of mile of happy driving up and down the coast as a teenager proved that some other mechanical minded, teenagers just know what to do...Would you have trusted a teenager who built a cool running/looking red RPU back in the 60's that got on the cover of HRM, to build your next car? No Doubt...

Ok, the teenager who build my 40 Ford Sedan Delivery did make a big mistake. He wanted the final finish to have a bright "racer orange" paint with black upholstered seats. Also, he wanted the black tires and matching "racer orange" rims with beauty rings. What happened to make him sell the sedan delivery to me was the nagging words that kept popping up in the drive-in parking lots and cruising around..."Hey buddy, cool car, is that color, salmon pink?"

He just mixed the colors wrong and when the delivery was finished late at night, it looked a perfect smooth "racer orange." But, in the daylight and some drive-in parking lot lighting at night, it definitely was salmon pink. What was the final color? Salmon Pink... But, I kept telling everyone that it was a baby orange color...that was fine with the girls. HA!

 

Only someone who knows better can say someone doesn't know what they are doing. Maybe the guy that did that crossmember was the smartest guy in town and others sought guidance from him.

 

Remember back in the 60's we didn't have all the high tech parts to do the engine swaps. We had to make our own parts or hunt the local junk yards. Now we can sit home and order it on line.

 

myself and two buddies of mine took home ec as our elective in grade 8. We were the only guys in the class...with 28 girls....figure it out...

 

It's a damn shame that shop classes have been taken out of the schools. On my first day we learned how to properly jack up and support a car with jack stands. No cement blocks. And we all had to do it until the teacher was satisfied. I recently red a statistic on the percentage of people that can change a flat tire.ranging from the 50s to now. As you may guess the percentage is really low now.


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I give you a lot of credit for taking this project on i don't know to many kids these days that want to do stuff like this at least we're in from. They just want daddy to buy them a new Camaro or diesel truck. I'm relatively new to this site also but the talent here is amazing as well as the eagerness of them to give advise so pay attention and you'll be a hot rodder in no time.


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I wouldn't mind pink, beats puke green.

 

A good welder was required in the early days - there was not so much motor mount stuff or cross members available.....maybe some bell housing adapters....the hot set up early for Chevy cars was the GMC motor that most installed with a little welding of mounts ....here's my uncle's 37 Chevie running an Olds and hydro ( from the same car) he hooked up about 1955....welded up mounts and all with some louvers for cooling.....no electric fans back then....

 

I think it really comes down to guys doing things based on their limitations; they used whatever they had on hand, and with the limited knowledge/knowhow they had. I call it, "doing the best job possible under the worst possible circumstances". That is one of the biggest things I learned during 32 years in healthcare! Over on ChevyTalk.Org, is a fella who inherited his Father's 1949 Chevrolet Coupe, he goes by "agleason", and has a thread in the 49-54 Build Forum. His Father put a 283 into the car, kept the stock 3-speed transmission and torque-tube driveline. He did ALL the work himself, and to look at it, it looks pretty "ratty", but everything functioned as it should. He built his own frame mounts, and attached 55-57 Chevrolet V-8 front engine mounts to them; drilled and tapped a 55-57 V-8 bellhousing to fit the small 40-54 Chevrolet 3-speed trans pattern; he used mismatched exhaust manifolds, and ran them through glass pack mufflers to the rear bumper; and the list goes on. It looks like the only thing he bought was the Hurst Mystery Shifter. He probably could have bought better conversion parts, but also probably did't have the $$$, and did what he could with what he had. Now the car is being rebuild from the ground up, bumper to bumper. Check it out, or maybe someone could do a "link". I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

Ha I knew I liked you!!!! I did the same thing!!!!!

 

I have a good one. I bought the truck in my avatar some time ago. It had a "swap meet" 283 and a TH350 swapped in. OK, pretty standard stuff. For a rear trans mount/crossmember the guy suspended a flat plate with 4 deep sockets and long bolts from the X member

Of course, this was the second thing to go. The first was his wiring

I didn't care because I was going through it anyway but got a good laugh.

 

Honestly, some guys are as thick as a brick. "wadda ya wanna take home ec for, that's for GIRLS!! DUH!!

 

Hurst made and offered engine mounts to do damn near every engine swap in every make under the sun back then if you wanted to buy them.

Before my folks were married- My dad, his brother ( my uncle) and my moms brother ( my uncle) did all kinds of engine swaps in the late 50s early 60's. They would do it for their own and anyone else who wanted. My dads brother was the youngest and he was the one who did the welding- my uncle the welder would have been in the ninth grade. They built some pretty cool stuff for high school kids.

 

There wasn't DIY television that made everyone think they can. Back then they had real mentors and studied them.

 

"Hello, my name's Butch, and I took Home Ec in high school also." I can admit that now that others have come forward. I knew a guy in X-Ray School, who had also taken Home Ec in high school, and his class had to prepare a complete meal, and SWAP it with others in the class, as part of their final grade. His little group prepared a "casserole", and one of the main ingredients was a can of ALPO! He would bring that up all the time, and laugh his head off. Sort of makes me glad I did't go to high school in East Texas. One of my Sedan Deliveries (I've had FOUR) had the firewall supports removed using a drill bit, with holes drilled in a close series across about four inches, then twisted off (???). I could never figure out what the purpose of that was. The 51 Business Coupe I bought from a HAMB classified ad, had the rear panel, that separates the interior from the trunk, removed with what looks like was done with an axe! We had to clean up that mess. My guess was, someone had done that so they could put a row boat into the trunk, and push it further in (???). My younger brother rebuilt the 265 in his 56 truck; just a ring and bearing job and redo the heads was his plan. The 265 still had the original flat top, WITHOUT any valve relief pistons, and one of the pistons had a broken skirt. The machine shop sold him a new piston and swapped it onto the rod of the broken one; course it had 4 valve reliefs. I questioned it, mostly wondering about the "balance". The same machine shop tanked the block and honed it, installed cam bearings and soft plugs, and sold him a rebuilt pair of "327" heads, exchange for his 265 heads. I could't get it through to my brother he was losing some compression with the bigger chambered heads. He also found that 2 head bolts on each side of the engine, were longer than the 265 heads. His solution was to find some large nuts to use as spacers, and bolted/torqued the heads on. That truck had a 2 barrel carb and Hedman Hedders, with full exhaust to the rear bumper. It had the best sound of any truck. A couple of years latter a piston let go; guess which one? I talked to Jim Green of Green Elephant Funny Car fame, and he sold us a remanned 327 short block for CHEAP. Everything got swapped over, and a Holley 2 barrel went on with an adapter. 25 years latter it was still running when he gave the truck to his BIL. After the BIL finally killed it, he pulled the Muncie 4 speed out to give it back to my brother, who gave it back to me. Point is, my brother is in NO way "mechanical", but his Mickie Mouse way of doing things always seemed to get him by. I think the same applies to a lot of guys; some learn the error of their ways, others become HAMBERS.
I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

Hurst made and offered engine mounts to do damn near every engine swap in every make under the sun back then if you wanted to buy them.

Before my folks were married- My dad, his brother ( my uncle) and my moms brother ( my uncle) did all kinds of engine swaps in the late 50s early 60's. They would do it for their own and anyone else who wanted. My dads brother was the youngest and he was the one who did the welding- my uncle the welder would have been in the ninth grade. They built some pretty cool stuff for high school kids.

 

That was a good plan....but when I was in high school, that plan backfired on us
So many guys signed up for home ec that they formed 2 classes, one all guys and one all girls.
We were crushed

They were pretty good sports of it though they mixed the classes every couple of weeks and we had a cooking and bake off competition with the girls towards the end of the year.