I wrote a long post about what or may not be on parts shelves across the country and how an INTERESTED counter person can find them. But just quit because you won't find one anyway. O got out a couple of old CarQuest books. I have nothing listing starters but found some interesting starter parts information. As we know Studebaker starters were provided by both Delco & Prestolite. Both made starters for 6 & 8 cylinders in 6v& 12v. 1956 was pretty much the first year of 12v US cars. CarQuest main line was Standard Ignition and numbers are the some or close with a prefix or suffix number added. I found that replacement part numbers for both Delco & Presto are the same and surprisingly many 6 & 8 cylinder numbers are the same. "Starter drive or clutch" (bendix.gear) Prestolite- '51-'54 (ALL) #SDN 55 '55 V8 #SDN 55 '56- '60 early (All) 12v # SDN 14 Delco- '51-'54 (ALL) # SDN 55 '55 V8 # SDN 55 ''56-'60 (ALL) 12v SDN 14 Brushes Prestolite '50-'59 (ALL) #EX-16B Delco '51-'60 (All) #RX-60 Solenoid Prestolite '56-'59 # SS-581X '60 # SS-202 Delco '51-'54 (All) # SS-558 '55 v8 # SS-571 '56-'59 12v # SS-581X I don't know what any of this means except there is a lot of interchange from 6 to 8 cylinder and little from 6v to 12V. I wish I had armature & case specs. Brush interchange may mean end caps are the same. On Ford generators 12v & 6v field windings can be swapped. This is all way harder than it should be. If we just had a 6v to copy, but if we had one we would not need to copy it.
@osage orange that’s actually one of my best friends dad. Does a fantastic job rebuilding these things. @Six Ball yeah last night I found the bendix/ Drive gear is the same on 6 and 12 cylinders and spent a couple hours trying to figure out with out either in my hands how close they are to working interchangeably. I know they will bolt on because one of My leads in the PNW said he had a friend with a 6 cylinder starter on his v8 and it was acting up which led to them finding it was a 6 cylinder starter. Sounds like maybe a 6 cylinder would work with the right shimming and tweaking maybe?
Back in my Counterman days I could pull them off the shelf or order them to compare. It is interesting that drives, brushes, and solenoids would be the same on 6 & 8 cylinder starters and your information that they bolt up. This is going to be doable. I know from experience the 12v bendix is held on with a pin through the shaft. Is the issue is shaft size ( sleeve to or ream it) and length to the flywheel which from the starter mount surface has to be the same.
Ok time for an update! I was deep in the throws of my latest reverse engineering trying to figure out a starter solution. I was in the garage with a caliper, googling and basically spinning in circles until about 1:30 am when I realized it was time to call it and go to bed. I hoped on to the hamb and looked for something to read, @Irishjr hemi powered Stude thread had popped up so I started seeing what progress he had made when it dawned on me that he started with a pretty nice car…. My brain started creeping as I went back to page one to see him pulling a Studebaker v8 with manual trans out! It was offered up to a good home at that point which was years ago but it’s always worth asking so I sent off a PM and in the middle of the night I had a reply! The motor had found a home with a local stude guy as a back up but he thought it would be up for grabs. He made a few phone calls and it sounded like we had a starter in our sights! He went to pick It up and had found it has been basically sitting in the muck and mire with an out anyone realizing what had happened under that tarp. After a little jump scare of a photo he tore it apart and cleaned it up quite a lot and put it back together. Add 12 volts and it works! Into a box and in record time it showed up at my place today! I’m so over joyed to have this checked off my list! I’ll take it apart and clean it further paint it up but knowing I have the correct starter and it works is a victory for sure. so here’s some pictures. Hand for scale, this suckers nearly a foot long and weights more than bowling ball.
There are smaller engines than that! Speaking of girth, your wrists look more like ankles. Sure wouldn't want to get hit by those. Sir.
Yup, those things aren't featherweights. Lifting them in n out for mockup installation = time at gym. . Don't let it drop & get your hand/arm/other tender body parts get twixt it & the ground. ;( . Glad you found one. Oh, once you reclean it & test it, check for the 3 bushings' wear. May as well swap'em out now. Not hard when it's all apart, n they're cheap. I used to have the #s, but lost the receipt years ago. If they're going away, armature gets hard to turn, rubs in the case, = large electrical load draw. Marcus...
NOW WE'RE GETTIN' SOMEWHERE! If it works you are good to go. If not it can be fixed. Having parts to measure is a whole new game, a game you can win. WOO HOO!
Yup plan for now is to find the correct bolts and bolt it on to the engine. Then onto the next puzzle piece.
Next piece of the puzzle? The rear axle and suspension. I had initially wanted to prep the A banjo and convert it to open drive. But then the thought of having to dump the clutch in an emergency situation to get out of the way came to mind. The idea of dumping 300 ft lbs of torque on it and sheering a key or breaking an axle instead of getting out of the way really sounds not awesome. so… I have this 8” out of a grabber maverick with some ridiculous high high gears in it. It is from what I gather the correct width for running full fenders on an A but it is just narrow enough that I do not think a stock width spring will fit for a spring over application. So as much as I hate the look of it vs a banjo I’m hoping I can paint it black and by the time the spreader bar, exhaust and plate are on you don’t notice it so much. I see 3:80 gears available for those pretty reasonable and it would use the same ladder bars I had already planned to use. so now I’m between finding a source for a narrower than stock model T main leaf, or putting 1/4 eleptic springs on it like this seems like price wise could be able the same but I need to look in to it further. I also need to figure out new lower shock mounts while I’m doing it, the 1/4 set up would also need a pan hard bar. seems a new main would be the easiest solution to me. I need to start digging around and see who makes a slightly narrower T main leaf
Hey, Tim; Any place around near you that could chop the eyes off(or unroll) n roll new ones on a current T spring? Used to be a place or two in the Cities, haven't looked for them for a long time. Marcus...
Yeah @porknbeaner recommended a shop I think it was this one. https://www.kcspring.com/what-we-do May have to find a sliver of time to go down and enquire soon as I think they fall inside the shadow of an eminent domain wiping out an entire district of the city for a new baseball stadium. Millworks/old yankee looks like $160 plus the ride for main leafs. I bet there’s a good chance re rolling the eyes is cheaper.
Man at 48.75 from the top inner edge of the backing plates I’m not even sure that 8” would clear the tires on the inner fenders. I’ll have to mock it all up. that puts me at needing a spring that’s 43.75 inches eye to eye installed.
Nope, if a transverse leaf is mounted in tension you don’t need one. When ford went to mounting them “loose” they added a pan hard. only exception I can see is in the front, if you have cross steering you generally need a pan hard bar. measured the backing plates and the 8” is a fair bit narrower than the A but the inner side wall of the tire is about the same. I’ll have to gather up the jack stands and mock it up to really see what’s going on. Probably measure a bunch more times before then lol. want to have the motor and trans mounted before I cement any rear axle/ rear suspension. I also need to see how close you can get a spring over bracket welded to the backing plate with out blocking hardware or brake bleeders
Found these part numbers on an old thread POSIES Offers 3 widths (lengths) for Rear Model A springs. These are based on perch eye (hanger) dimensions: 29-31R - Perch eyes 48 - 49 1/2" (will work on stock Model A rear axles) 29-31R-C - Perch eyes 46 - 46 1/2" (narrow) 29-31R-N - Perch eyes 44 - 44 1/2" NEW ITEM DUE Mid october 2019 (ultra narrow) I’ll have to see what lead time is on those. Seems like posies has been a year out at least in anything not on the shelf the last couple years edit: yikes! Looking like close to $600 for a spring pack plus shipping on those. That counts me out on that option
Ford's setup was entirely different as they used wishbones and a torque tube in most(?) buggy spring applications. It's never fully in tension, though, because your shackles should be at 45° while loaded, so you're essentially driving a swing set. Which means the axle has about 3/4" that it can move side to side. Other threads on here have discussed this. The consensus seems to be that it's not absolutely necessary, but it's a good idea. 2,000 or so pounds going around a corner acting on those shackles means it's no longer centered. Just my take from what I've learned about them.
I’m talking about fords and they take a lot of tension to get onto the shackles. Add in how short the early shackles are I don’t see a world where that thing is gonna swing at all. the later set ups with out the pan hard will do that for sure and it gets even worse with lowering shackles. but everyone’s entitled to there opinion. I don’t see a set of ladder bars ending at the tail shaft together as being any different than a set of wish bones attached to a torque tube as far as axle position is concerned
But I will be sending mill works an email asking about the main if they are going to make one available it would save some head aches.
If there is not a spring shop near you find a local blacksmith. The can un-roll, re-roll, reverse the eyes. Re-arc, de-arc, and re-temper the main leaf. If you go the quarter elliptic route it can be set up as a triangulated 4 link with the springs as the bottom links. I think that is where my roadster is headed.
Tim, I had Atlas Spring & Axle Co. in Wichita make me a new front main leaf spring for my '29AA and it cost me a little over $100. I was delighted with the spring and the speed in which they made it and sent it to me. My first frustrating battle with my old '29 standard coupe when I was back in college was replacing the roached out shackle and bushings on the left rear. I pissed away more than two hours trying to compress the spring down and shove the shackle into place. After I was about worn slick and spent five minutes having a cussing fit, my catacorner back neighbor (retired truck mechanic) came over and showed me a trick. He put a short length of 2-by-4 between the axle housing and the bottom of the spring eye, then told me to stand on the left rear bumper and jump up and down. As I did, it compressed the spring just enough to push home the well-greased shackle enough that it could be hammered home the rest of the way. Easy peasy. A year later I bought the old guy's '64 Barracuda. I wish I had both cars back now.
How long ago did you have the spring made? That seems like a good option as well. I’m unsure what measurements I need to have when I go talk to someone about a narrower spring. I assume the installed eye to eye and height of the arch, and then have the main in hand. That information and how much narrower the spring perches will be is what I figure a shop would need to rather make a new main or narrow my existing one good trick on spreading the leaf as well! I generally take the entire pack apart and install just the main first, I think even then I’ve had to use the wood block trick a time or two!
I think Atlas made my spring about two years ago, maybe three. I broke the old one trying to reverse the curve and got too close to one eye while using the 20-ton press to re-arch it. The eye and about three inches of spring broke off and went flying across the garage like shrapnel from a grenade. Lesson learned. They're great to work with and will talk with you at length on how to get measurements right. Simpler for me as I just sent the two broken parts to them and they sent back the parts plus a new, reversed eye main leaf that fit so perfectly it about made me cry.
Back in my high school days when I had an Olds in my '38 coupe I changed several rear ends and transmissions. If it was a trans I left the shackles and unbolted the U-bolts on top and just rolle the rear end back a little. If it was the rear end I had an old bumper jack I modified into a spreader with pointy ends to fit into where the spring eyes rolled around. It worked pretty well and was just enough to keep the spring where it needed to be.
@05snopro440 your suggestion for the millworks leaf does seem like the best answer. I’m waiting to hear back from them on when they will be available
I asked them again on Instagram as well. 5 weeks ago they told me "hopefully this coming weekend". Which is funny, because in the video from December 9 where they announced them they mentioned "this answers the question for the other spring manufacturer right now that doesn't have them in stock and probably never will." Yet he can't give any kind of solid ETA on these springs.
Yeah, it’s probably frustrating on their end as well. You have a new product you want to tell everyone about but they havnt hit the shelf yet so do you hold off til they show up or make a video and hope they are in soon. im not in a huge rush but this would sure fast track things along. Bugs me not having the car roll- able.
The Jalopy Journal
