What's all this noise I hear? The September banger meet, that's what!

With the prospect of an A with a 4 banger looming on the horizon I can't help but get excited about the possibilities! Of course all the nay sayers tell me to yank it but I think this will be the perfect opprotunity to build something that is already running into something better. How great would it be to have a Rajo head on a 6 and a 4?!

While I find the monthly banger meets most insightful I still want more! What books, websites, magazines or other materials have you guys found the most informative? Winter is quickly approaching in Ohio so I'll have lots of time to study as the snow flies by!

Also, put me down for one medium shirt, thanks!

 

RajoGIRLrox,
please dont pull the 4!

get that sucker out of the barn.....NOW!!!!

 

Phil I think I have a few new body blocks and a body bolt kit leftover from my Phaeton I can bring them to the drags if they are any good to you for a pint of Bitter.
Rich

 

Sounds good - if I make the drags...
Consider the pint yours anyway - and I may make it down to the John Mould run this month.


Zach - been pondering this myself with all the A fenders for the pickup. Weight-wise they don't add up to a hill of beans.

My very mild B engine in a barn door Fordor A seems to stick quite well with a friends stock A chassis fitted with nary but a glass roadster body and a single 94.

 

thanks phil
guess its really just gona be personal choice.....

 

?? No 32 roadster with mech brakes!?? oh no!

HA!

I just found a guy with a 32 roadster,.. a real one,....I'm not even asking him to sell it though as he has a LOT of history with it! I'm onna head out to meet him as he's interested in the club, etc. Seems like a really neat and kind guy!

 

I remember a guy on Ahooga posting about gaining just 5mph top speed by removing his fenders and boards. I also remember Clark running very similar quarter mile times in his fenderless coupe, when compared to having the fenders on. Almost identical, I think?
They don't weigh much, as Phil said.

 

Coaltown, Any chance of posting some photos of the Hot Iron club cars? I know most cars were daily driver But maybe some raced.

 

The 5 mph alleged gain comes from George Riley in his 100mph Model A instruction manual.
The thread you talk of on Ahooga was by Jeff Richardson (?) and titled "It was a lot of work to gain 5mph...". This is where he pulled the fenders off his 100% stocker just for the fun of it. I had a link but it doesn't work anymore.

I ran 18.8 in a full bodied, full fendered coupe. Without the fenders I ran an 18.8...

Realistically you're never going to notice their presence.

 

Just when I was thinking of going fenderless on my wagon, you guys start talking about putting them on

 

clark,
did you gain alot going to a roadster from the coupe...weight wise?

jersey boy....go fenderless.... send them to me!

 

Yup - I guess the fact it's a completely different animal changes how I drive it. My lil' flattie modified I thrash without mercy - it handles well, light steering, good brakes & accelerates just fine.

The Cee-dan is a more ponderous animal. Steering is heavy, leans over on corners, mechanical brakes need a horoscope. It's no 'B' road scratcher. If that term carries across the pond. But - it's a comfy sofa cruiser, and she picks up her skirts and gathers speed surprisingly well.

I always remember our Marco - built his A coupe with a hot 4" crank flattie, open engine and headers, thrashed it everywhere till an oil leak on a long fast lane run toasted the engine. Sold him a stock 21 stud to keep it on the road and it changed the character of the car. Fitted mufflers and a hood and put far more miles under the treads.

I guess a full fendered coupe would somehow <b><i>feel</i></b> different?

 

Spot on, Clark, about the Ahooga thread. I had that post saved and it isn't working either.

After running a fenderless coupe for several years and now having a fully fendered tudor, I only really notice the difference when getting in and out! And in the rain....

 

I got the pictures though.

 

That thing is gorgeous. I've got a thing for '31's with the aprons left on....

 

I have a 31 wagon it's about as heavy as it gets

I goes along like an 36hp VW not bad

Faster than the Topolino but it doesn't corner like the mouse! Mice corner real good!!

 

That wagon looks great!! wow!

 

That's a nice look,....with only the partial running board skirts! I've been thinking of building a 30-31 for my wife in the same vein. Very nice!!!

 

Actually a LOT of them raced, that was the club's thing,...racing at the dry lakes back in the day.

I have only a few photos, but have been holding out posting them as some are not mine, and I am still in the SLOOOOOW process of writing a book on the club and the guys in the club,..their lives in and out of hot rodding.

If you're interested in seeing some, hop on the website as I'm goin to be putting up some photos there in the next few days.

 

My next project is a full fendered late 31 coupe with a 2" chop, a cast iron Riley 4 port ahead of maybe a Torqueflite trans. I have a freshly rebuilt Torqueflite but I also have another "38" Lincoln side shift and a set of Ford commercial gears ( lower 2nd ) in a 39 box with open drive conversion. And I'm looking at 3 "BB" SR's on the shelf . Decisions decisions. Maybe 3.54's for the street. I have a set of 40 brakes with chromed backing plates in the mess somewhere's, also I can run Kelsey's or 16" ford solids but remembering the 5o's and 60's I have a set of 15's laying out back 2 stock ford 's for the front and 2 Ford pickup or Lincoln's for the rear. If you might be wondering where all this came from it is from years of scrounging swap meets and other places. As an example, recently I was in an antique store and bought a pair of Ca yellow plates for $10.00.

 

Thanks Jason,

Funny thing is, it doesn't look like that anymore I started to restore this wagon four years ago, and that was before I knew about the HAMB My original goal was to restore it to an original driver. I've stripped off all the '35 V-8 paraphernalia that had been put on, including aftermarket stuff. I sold the headlights and hub caps, but I still have the 16" rims.

Now after seeing the cars on the banger thread, I want to do a fenderless mild hop-up.

 

OK..I apologise if all of this is on a different thread but I'm a real know nothing on Ford 4 bangers. Lots of flathead V-8 experience but zilch with bangers. 1. Difference between A&B blocks? 2. Which is more desirable and why? 3. Donovan block worth the investment? 4.Who makes new stock cranks and does Donovan make a crank for their block? I've been reading the banger posts and am getting concerned about the durability of cranks in an engine with mods. Hearing from guys that have done it is a whole lot more valuable than some article. Thanks in advance for your patience and help.

 

My uncle has a bone stock full fendered '30 coupe that he drives all the time. Every time I have driven it I am suprised how fun and (relitively) fast it is. It cruises 55 - 60 mph and stops ok with the mech. brakes. It is a different type of fun.

My RPU with a hopped up "A" engine is completly different. It has an OHV head, T-5 5 speed trans with closed driveline hooked to a quick change rear with 31" tall tires. It handles better and keeps up with So. Cal traffic. Early ford "juice" brakes work very well in a 1800 lb car.

My records show that the model A coupe weighes @ 2260 lbs.

With some driveline upgrades, a full fendered coupe would be a formitable hot rod. I would warm up the engine with a hi comp. head, down draft intake and carb., Ex. header, and better ignition. Put in an overdrive or T-5 trans (I like the T-5 ). Upgrade the steering to a F-1 box. And switch to juice brakes.

That combo would give you a very drivable Stock looking coupe.

You could go further with a lowered stance and some 16" wheels and tires. Too many options, the sky's the limit.

 

i may be able to get some Pics on Saturday

 

Pics of me at the Hayride 2008 - with Huggys four banger sprint car.

























Wot great fun - what - I love mud!

 

http://www.donovanengineering.com/Blocks/ModelDBlock.html

Clark - I want one

 

Reader's Digest response:

#1 A is gravity oiled bearings with 1 5/8" main bearings and 1 1/2" rod bearings. Lower compresion head (@4.8:1). mild cam timming. Manual advance ignition.
B is preasurized main and cam bearings. Main journals are 2" and rods are 1 7/8" dia. higher comp head (@5.5:1). Hotter cam. Centrificly advances distributer.

#2 B is most desirable. Why? see above and fewer made.

#3 Donavan. I don't know anyone that runs one, but from what I've spent trying to make HP with an A, I wish I would have done it from the start. Complete flat head Donavan will cost @ 16k some Model A club events won't let you run the Donavan. more info on the Donavan is here: http://www.modelaparts.net/hiperf.html/donovansem.html

#4 New counter weighted cranks are avalible here:
http://burlingtoncrankshaft.com/ price = $950 I've been told that this crank is very tough and hard to drill for preasure to the rods.

Donavan makes a crank for their engine. Last I looked price was @ $2500

IMHO..... If you are shooting for a hot flathead with @ 60-75 HP you shouldn't have any problems with model A engine. (stock hp was 45)

80-100 hp flat head, or 100-125 hp OHV the B is your best choice.

Anything above @ 125 HP big mods needed for both A or B or Donavan

 

Simon,
Very cool. I'm very jealous. looks like you has tons of fun.

 

I have a stock-bodied '30 coupe with a 5.9 Brumfield head, Winfield touring cam, and B Zenith carb, and I have to tell you it is most certainly not a 'dog.' I ran it hard, first time, at the FAST 'hillclimb' at Addison during the Model A Nationals in June, and it easily pulled 3400 in first and second. It will definitely keep up with surface street traffic up to about 45-50, and actually surprise quite a few folks at stoplights. As it's built it's likely only about 65-70 hp; there are lots more things that can be done to it and still have it driveable (downdraft, headers, more comp, overheads, etc). I have a freshly rebuilt stock Model A trans in it (the original non-synchro box) and a lightened flywheel, and I can shift up through the gears as fast as I can move the lever. Haven't had it at the strip, though...My engine has inserts and stock oiling. If you want more rpm than what I get, you need to seriously think about full pressure oiling. Check out the www.fordbarn.com and www.ahooga.com mb's, and get in touch with the F. A. S. T. group in SoCal, www.hotforhotfours.com. They run a few speed events every year, and have developed rules and classes for their competition. A mild Model A like mine will run in Touring class; take the fenders off and you run against full-on Lakes cars in the Modified class. Have fun, with four-titude!
Fearless

 

Hi, Bill. One thing you need to plan to do is get in touch with the Tucson Model A club, who, together with F.A.S.T., put on the Picacho Peak hillclimb in early November each year (www.picachohillclimb.org). When you go, you'll see a broad range of modified 'bangers, from bone stock to full-race Lakes cars. You'll find 'em a helpful and talkative group. Be sure to join us for the Saturday tour and lunch, too.
A blocks were not set up for fuel pumps, B blocks were. B mains and rods are a little larger but not much; B's had (some) pressure to the mains but not the rods; A's had neither. B blocks are thinner in certain places and more prone to cracks on the deck surface. Stock oiling is sufficient unless you plan to exceed about 3500rpm; in either case you want a counterweighted crank, even with a stock rebuild. It's pretty common practice these days to add counterweights to an A crank, and doing so takes stress off the center main. If you add counterweights you'll want to remove a similar amount from the flywheel, which weighs 62lb stock (don't drop it on your toe!). As stated elsewhere, Donovan blocks and cranks are available if you have boocoo bucks but aren't needed to have fun. I've got only about four large in my motor, and it's a real runner. Check out H&H Antique, Piranio's in Denton, Tx., Jim Brierley in Temecula, Ca., Steve Serr (Miller Hi-Speed Head) in Ventura, Ca., Ron Kelley in Royce City, Tx., Sacramento Vintage Ford, and Bert's Model A Service in Denver. These are just a few of the better-known suppliers of hot, fresh 'banger parts. But come see us at Picacho; it's only about 30 min from you.
Fearless