Projects High compression heads worth it?

So school just started back up again and I spent my whole ass summer working 7 says a week so I finally have enough for those Edelbrock heads I've been angling for, but I also have enough to buy speedway's dual carb setup, I heard that it's better (and cheaper) to just mill the stock heads but I don't really know. I was wondering if any of you could tell me if it's a good idea to spend the $800 or not, or maybe I should just get the carb kit I don't know

 

Reading between the lines, it seems like you are a student and on a budget. I'm going to go further out on a limb and assume that the car in your avatar is what you are referring to. If this is the case, I'd suggest reworking the stock heads over aftermarket aluminum ones. A large part of the appeal of a nice set of finned heads is their appearance. Since your car has a hood, the heads are going to be out of sight 98% of the time. With proper knowledge, a lot of work, and some care, stock heads can be made to perform as well as the fancy aftermarket units.

You don't just take them in and have "X" amount milled. You need to first determine the nominal clearance over the piston dome. You then determine the amount that should be taken off to arrive at an overall clearance of .045" to .050" over the dome. (These measurements are usually taken with small lumps of clay or aluminum foil balls.) Once you get the heads close, you work them over with a die grinder to establish uniform clearance. This not only increases your compression, but also optimizes the "quench" which causes turbulence in the combustion chamber. The theory behind this is beyond the scope of this post. I would refer you to the works of Sir Harry Ricardo done almost 100 years ago. A couple of things to note. First, sometimes it will be necessary to remove different amounts from the heads on the initial milling; this is because of the differences in production heads. Secondly, even aftermarket finned aluminum heads should go through this procedure, as they are not optimized for a particular engine and are usually a compromise. As an example, the last set of Edmunds finned heads I did needed .035" taken off of one and .040" from the other to get to the initial .045" clearance.

As to carburetion, for a mild street engine, a large 2BBL or a small 4BBL makes a better induction system than a traditional dual setup. I have run both a 390 Holley 4BBL and a Rochester 2G on mild street flatheads and both performed well. In the end, I prefer the 2BBL on a bored out late Mercury manifold. And, if you don't already know it, you will need to change the distributor if you change carburation. The stock "Load-A-Matic works well with a single stock carburetor, but is incompatible with anything else because of the way the advance system works.

 

Uhmmm...

We need more info, are we talking flat head? Sbc? Sbf? What cam you running? Auto or 4 speed? Etc.

Too many variables to answer such an open ended question.

.

 

I know I took some liberties in assuming what he's working on, but with a '50 Ford as an avatar and referring to "Speedway's dual carb setup" and 'high compression heads", I think we're on pretty firm ground assuming that he's referring to a flathead Ford.

 

Cast Iron flathead heads for an 8BA based engine aren't spendy even when it comes to the "good" ones.
I'd study the head list but think that the 52/53 Ford head has the best compresson out of the box.
If it were me I'd mill the heads and find a 4 bolt Mercury intake and bolt a Rochester 2 barrel on it that would probably flow as good or better than two spendy 97's. Per this thread on the Ford truck board but I think that there are a couple of similar threads on the Hamb. Merc Manifold and Rochester 2G Swap - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums (ford-trucks.com)

Mercury Flathead Intake | The H.A.M.B. (jalopyjournal.com)

 

Rex -

Remember...when asking questions..."details matter "!
Not to many of us have up to date crystal balls to look into ! So...we need to know what you have between the fenders of your car...with...ALL...of the information that you can provide, to be able to provide you...with the best answers that we (collectively) can.

Mike

 

Denny and others ,
Yes,,,,,I remember this young man,,,,he’s working on the car in the avatar .
It’s a Flathead,,,,,,,he’s a student ,and just beginning to try to learn about these machines .

I agree,,,,,,I think he should concentrate on using what he has to some extent .
Those factory heads will work great,,,,,and he can modify them to his purpose .
If I remember correctly,,,,Ol Ron ,,,,over on the Barn,,,,,recommends to angle mill the stock heads .070 thousandths,,,,to bring up the compression .
And the carb recommendation is right in the money .

Tommy

 

From what we have to go by, I’d say two things:
1. Keep the iron heads, maybe get them milled.
2. Do not get Speedway carbs. Why? In short, they are not a good product. Plenty of threads about them on this site.

Don’t be tempted by cheap or bargains. But please make absolutely sure what you have is operating as best it can. Fancy or pretty parts won’t make a tired or badly tuned engine any better. You have a great car to learn on. And don’t disregard the use of a factory manual.

 

As said, too little background info to get near an answer. On top of info about what engin it's going on it's important to know what you want out of the engine too. Peak power, reliability, fuel economy, looks, sound... Different goals dictate different approaches.

 

Is the engine running well? As mentioned don’t change a thing until you get it running well and dialed in as is.
You didn’t mention, but is this your only transportation? If so, I see why you might want to have a few boxes of parts on hand to minimize down time.
But are you going for the cool factor when you pop the hood, or just looking at more than the engine is giving you now? We’ve all spent money on parts that spiced up the look, nothing wrong with that.
So what’s your end goal?

 

As a guy who messes with later flathead id say
1, carbs and intake but not that speedway crap. Save a little more and buy 2 new real strombergs and a used 2×2 intake.
2, ditch the loadomatic distributor for a vintage mallory or similar
3, EAB heads.
4, camshaft adjustable lifters
Thats what order id do it

Even with those mods your still talking pretty low hp. Fight the battle from 2 sides and keep the car itself light. Weight savings seems to be an under appreciated strategy in the traditional hot rod world. I cut and drill and lighten whatever I can. Now that is the real budget friendly way to gain top end.

 

EAB heads are the highest-compression factory heads and are a direct bolt-on. That and a good 2 bbl on a Merc intake will really wake that Flatty up....Even a stock carb worked over will work really well.

 

Finned al. heads look more impressive than milled iron heads and two carb manifold also
looks good. Personally I'd run 3 carbs with progressive linkage. Looks plus performance.

 

Great advice. If your car is light, I'd also recommend lightening the flywheel or go with an aluminum flywheel.. I'm using a Weber in 292 ci motor and the engine spools up very quickly with that set up. Really snaps.

Do not use an 11" truck clutch/pressure plate. Not needed and heavy as hell.

 

If your brakes, suspension, steering, compression, valve train, ignition, fuel system, wiring, exhaust, clutch, heater, windshield wipers, etc, etc, etc, are in anything less than EXCELLENT working order, I would spend my money time and effort on all of that first.

A totally stock engine that's tuned and working the way it was intended can sometimes produce surprisingly more power than a stumbling "hot rodded" engine that has issues.

Good luck and have fun!

 

sounds like you are getting the question answered about the heads
As it was explained to me, the aluminum heads provide gains in cooling rather than horsepower. I do not think you will find a published thing about "I added 15 hp with these heads" etc like you will on a SBC.

as far as intake and carbs, unless you are doing other work internally with stroke or cam, then a stock engine works well with 1 carb. A 4bbl intake looks terrible, but does work well.

 

$800 aluminum heads won't give you any better noticeable performance than the milled cast iron heads mentioned in earlier posts. Save your dough for something else.

 

And because it's a flat head, I don't believe that only milling the heads is the standard procedure. Good flow is at least as important as compression, and when milling the heads on a flat head, it can inhibit flow. There's usually some porting and relieving involved. Vicey vercy, too much of that and compression suffers. So it's a balance.

 

I've heard a set of EAB heads on an 8BA engine will go from 6.8 to 7.2:1 without doing any machine work. Not as cool looking as aluminum heads, but it works.

 

Heads are just one part of the equation of how well an engine runs, so it's tough to say if more compression will help more than a multi carb setup. It's tough to even say if the carb change will help without more info. The entire engine assembly from carb, to intake, cam, heads, exhaust, all needs to work well together, so a lot more info is needed to even begin to say which change might be the most worthwhile.

 

Exactly. With a flathead, all the little gains can add up to a big gain. 10 hp here, 15 hp there, etc.

If you'd like, I can list all that I did to my motor. Granted, its a big flathead at 292 ci', but it runs so strong it even impressed my SBC friend. My engine in my '28 AV8 will light up the tires in 2nd when you get on it.

I did have to do a ton of work and research on the right combinations to it to get it there. That said, it was not cheap and one of the best in game build it for me.

 

Rex: Go over to Fordbarn and do a search on heads or milling heads.
Good stuff appears like below. Read everything related to heads as info. is mixed in.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=294202&highlight=milling+8ba+heads
I think you will decide that using the cast irons is the best way to go in your case. Once you start modifying and changing parts, it never ends and the price keeps going up.

 

If circumstances dictate that you run a single carb, reserve some of your budget for an air filter with a strong character. Something with some pizzaz can draw the eye and the single carb will just be background.
There are a couple of threads here on this forum dedicated just to air cleaners/filters. And not just what you can buy over-the-counter, but also some very clever handmade and repurposed beauties.

 

Sounds like someone has been reading old J.C. Whitney ads. Anyone contemplating a flathead Ford build should get and read a copy of Lohn W. Lawson's book "Flathead Facts". It will provide a dose of realism sorely needed by some. Getting the heads "right" is one of the most important things one can do to increase the efficiency of a flathead. It goes without saying that this should accompany all other aspects of the engines tune. Certainly, "speed equipment" is wasted on an engine with low compression, a dirty carburetor, or worn ignition parts. The first thing on the menu should be getting the engine running at top efficiency, and this requires optimizing the combustion process. It does not include multiple carbs and/or racing camshafts.

 

Higher compression is always a good thing. Example 64-65 283 2 barrel factory engine. 64-180hp…65-195hp…. Only a compression change.

 

I dont have history on the staus of the build - please link your build thread. If I had to choose priorities on a shoebox Ford.

Running / driving
Electrical
Interior
Bodywork / paint
Speed parts

Not to piss in the cheerios here ....but....
Flathead in a light hot rod, will only do so much. In a heavier car, do you get the bang for your buck ?
Reliable cruiser would be my plan for - that engine - that car.

 

It's not a total waste of time, though. I have a '51 Merc with reworked Edmunds heads (140 lbs compression), a 2G on a reworked aluminum Merc manifold, and a Mallory dual point in my '51 Ford coupe. I find the performance totally adequate and even exhilarating. The car has no OD (yet), 3.55 gears, and 225/75R15 rear tires. Previously, the same car with a decent running stock engine was barely marginal for me to drive on a daily basis. Between the lack of power and bias-ply tires, it was scary to drive at interstate speeds. The current engine has moved it into a while new category in regards to driveability.

 

When I was in high school, (50's) I put aluminum heads and 3X2 97's on my '40 coupe so it would go fast. Yeah, didn't really slow it down much.

 

Stock 8ba with garbage old tiny chrome air cleaner, stock 3 speed, newer ignition coil, all "new" wiring (13 years ago was rewired) 65,4xx original miles (so called), glasspack (unknown brand, but very long) 4 door 1950 Ford custom deluxe Sears allstate guardsman 4ply tires (good shape) cheapass Bondo+Rust-Oleum paint job

 

I have the original shop manual that's what I used to tune the carb because when I got it the guy who sold it to me "rebuilt" (aka new gaskets) the carb and didn't bother adjusting it so I had to do it, it used to cough up thick black smoke before I adjusted it (made the car parked behind me's bumper black oops) now it's fine just doesn't burn all the fuel you can smell it and burns oil, but what I've heard is that they always burn oil