i know its off topic, so please dont add coments. just looking to ask a couple of questions to someone who is a Judge fanatic. weve got a judge in our shop and it doesnt seem to be a judge but the numbers say so. so please PM me so i can throw some questions out. thanks.
I had a 69 Judge I got when I was 14 and sold at the end of my senior year of high school to get my first merc (back in 1986). I am still pretty into GTO's and I still have several of my books with info. Remember, your best source for info is the Pontiac Historical Society because nothing in the Vin of a 69 indicates it was a Judge. In fact I still have the title for another Judge I bought and scrapped because it had a perfect interior I used in mine and was the victum of an engine fire. Edit, whoops...sorry I just saw the please don't post part rereading this...sorry guys.
i just did want people to get mad at this thread getting bumped to the top. since im posting now, ill just include the question, if anyone has any info, just PM me. well heres what we ve got. a guy brought in a 69 GTO that is supposedly a judge. once we started stripping off the black primer we noticed it had a lot of damage hidden by an inch thick of bondo. then we noticed all the rust problems on the roof. then the holes for the vinyl top. when i went to strip the decklid, i didnt find any place or filled in spots for a wing. im just curious if the judge came as a vinyl top and with out a wing? the decklid is the same color as the car on all layers of paint and had the factory primer on it. also it only has a 400 with a 4 bbl on it. no ram air set up. the bad thing about this car is there is more rust on this car then good metal. this guy paid way TOO MUCH for it from a local shop. i wouldnt have ripped off a guy that looks like this guy. he's mid 30's, fully tatted. this guy isnt too happy right now. he's basically got a good set of glass in that car.
Let's not list too much info about clients...You never know if they are cruising the board or not.... Jason.
I have seen Judges with the vinyl top before, but they were done at dealerships when new. This issue has come up before and I am not sure if you could have gotten one from the factory or not. Given how things were done is 69 I am not sure it could be ruled out. You could not get a Judge without the deck spoiler. Of course the car could have had the lid replaced but no such thing as a spoiler-less 69 Judge. At the very least the Judge was a Ram Air III...mine was one of those. Ram Air IV was and option. Ram Air V was not production but a dealer thing and so rare not even worth mentioning. I hate to say this but make sure it is not a clone made from a Le Mans. All GTO's (Judge and non Judge start with 24237 in the vin. Early run Judges were all Carousel Red (Orange) and could have just the GTO badge on the upper dash and no Judge glove box emblem. They had no air either if I remember right. A major way to catch a fake Judge is production date. None were made before Jan. of 1969 so if it was made in late 68 it is not a Judge. I do not remember the specifics but the hinges on the deck lid are different on a Judge to account for the weight of the spoiler. Hope some of that helps.
he's correct, plus, the deck lid hinges should have heavy duty torqe rods. the first digits of the vin should be 24269. 2=pontiac 42=gto or judge 69=year. i don't know what 37 is. the 400 is the base engine for the judge. with a three speed in the floor. four speeds where optional. the build sheet will read rpo554, upcwt1 thats the only way to tell if it's a real judge.
37 was for GTO, the sixth number in the vin should be a 9 for 1969. The 2 was for division/Pontiac 42 for the cars series. 37 for GTO Then a 9 for 1969 would follow with the rest being the unique to the car part of the vin. At this time it was single digits in the sixth spot for year and I don't remember when they went to letters for this...70 maybe?
Johnny, considering some of the threads i've seen on here over the years i don't find this "over time" at all. Merc, you seem to know your stuff. You are right, all Judge decklids should pop open and stay up due to the heavy rods. Also, the glove box should have a Judge emblem on it. If the emblem is missing there should be small holes where the emblem was. And you are also right in stating that all Judges were Ram Air cars. No standard 400's (even though they are nothing to laugh at) were placed in Judges. Carousel red (Orange) was a 1969 color only, and started on Firebirds first. If i remember correctly all beginning production Judges started with this color from the factory , THEN all other available 1969 colors could be ordered. carousel Red color code on the data tag was 72T . I wouldn't put it past someone to pay a little extra and get a vinyl top judge. Wouldn't be the first time i've seen an oddity come from the factory. When in doubt though, spend the $20.00 and write your VIN down on a piece of paper and send it to PHS (Pontiac Historical Society) .Unlike a lot of other manufacturers Pontiac kept their records on microfilm up to 1959 ! Everything they have is the original Build Sheets and the dealerships the factory sent the cars to ! Its amazing ! My dad and i have used PHS at a dozen times. As well as the tri 5 Chevies , Fords, and early Hot Rods , i had a thing for Muscle Cars. In 1988 i found and bought a 1969 Judge in Bakersfield California. Carousel Red, Ram Air III,4 speed,3.90 posi, hide-a-way headlights, hood tach,bucket seats,non console. Wish i kept it.
phs raised the fee to $50, still a good deal if you really want to document your pontiac... http://www.phs-online.com/
I just sold my GTO '69. Was a vinyl top car with a km/h Speedo. Great car! I love Muscle Cars. Who doesn't? If they are honest! Good look with u'r Judge! Wish I had one, or better a '67 4 Speed!
thanks fritz.... i honestly didnt want people to post too much and to just PM me, like i stated. i work at a hot rod/ custom shop in morro bay known as Bear Metal Kustoms. we have a lot of hot rods and customs. we havea cut off year at 70. we have 2 muscle cars out of about 10 projects there. i think thats pretty good. i came asking the question because i wanted to know some info. i had no luck searching for the info through google and what not. so i figured i would give the HAMB a try. and i actually got a lot of info out of here. there is also a thread on a guys 70 el camino on here right now. he's getting a lot of info. next time you want to add something so little and retarded as that statement, remember, you just bumped this thread back upto the top instead of letting it slip through the cracks like i actually wanted it to. once again, if the title of a thread says O/T dont bother opening it, becuase it is considered a warning. atleast i was looking for info on a classic car rather than wanting to see some pics of chics and cars. thanks.
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